[AT] Kubota M5700 noise
Mike M
meulenms at gmx.com
Sat Apr 18 21:00:27 PDT 2020
Won't load for me Dave.
Mike M
On 4/18/2020 4:52 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
> Will do Mike. I appreciate all the help and interest in helping me
> find a solution to this problem. Many very experienced and
> knowledgeable people on here and I certainly enjoy reading everything
> and many times learning things. We haven't gotten very much further
> with this due to some other pressing things, but will. New injectors
> made no difference at all. Just today however, the guys are working on
> a four cylinder version of this Kubota engine and sent me the
> attached video clip. Sounds very similar to my noise. Weak valve
> spring in the head, see what you all think. If you click on this, at
> the bottom it says "go to link" and it will get you there. Sorry,
> haven't been on a computer since I retired and just got my laptop back
> from my son who fixed it, so figuring how to get this texted video to
> attach to the email was a chore and not sure if this was the way, but
> it worked! Lol
>
> Dave Maynard
> The Maple Hill Farm
> Marion, NY
> https://r3---sn-vgqsrnek.googlevideo.com/videoplayback?expire=1587249885&ei=vWabXuqQJ-yPir4PnP2b0Ag&ip=74.69.206.141&id=8e77dec671cecdd0&itag=37&source=picasa&begin=0&requiressl=yes&mh=4G&mm=30&mn=sn-vgqsrnek&ms=nxu&mv=u&mvi=2&pl=23&sc=yes&susc=ph&app=fife&mime=video/mp4&cnr=14&dur=6.153&lmt=1587239101906161&mt=1587242304&sparams=expire,ei,ip,id,itag,source,requiressl,susc,app,mime,cnr,dur,lmt&sig=AJpPlLswRQIhAMem1LR4HFWc9FRrnjAuULSl_8Hct2cwBUMJvVjpSp08AiAKJ78mrFHMS8CdrtzfOAcROoIhrd9w_-3bWHzQSXHX_A==&lsparams=mh,mm,mn,ms,mv,mvi,pl,sc&lsig=ALrAebAwRAIgOvaXXGqqyzob2OV9veVkI84nmv2LSX6Pa1YivEL5jbMCIFnKOojXR0kxcC_cjLU_y9tvAbOImRgjUxXal3_let-J
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 1:16 PM Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com
> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>
> Keep us updated Dave, this has been an interesting and informative
> thread.
>
> Mike M
>
>
> On 4/8/2020 12:57 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>> By the way, not even sure if this has the wrong rod, just been
>> guessing until we can get it in and apart. I wonder though if
>> there could be residual fuel from an unfinished burn caused by
>> yet unknown reason. Maybe carbon buildup in pre combustion
>> chamber which may cause higher compression or poor atomization.
>> Maybe Cecil's thought of loose or cracked pre combustion chamber.
>> Unseen crack in the head, causing an improper mixture, or maybe
>> even a piston pin bearing we missed. Still dont know how soon we
>> can get it inside and apart, as we need to get a place ready.
>> Don't want it apart outside, and this time it could be apart a
>> little longer than the others.
>>
>> Dave M.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 12:46 PM Dave Maynard
>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The tractor in NY you are referring to IS this tractor. That
>> is a post my son Mike made back when we first got it. You may
>> recognize him on here as Mangus.
>>
>> Dave M
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 11:58 AM ustonThomas Mehrkam
>> <tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net <mailto:tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>>
>> A Google search for kubota M5700 engine noise turns up a
>> thread on tractorbytenet about a tractor in new york with
>> exactly the same problem. Knock piston 5. You might
>> follow this thread to see if there was a solution
>>
>> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> M5700 'Knock' and other questions
>>
>> My father picked up a M5700 this weekend. Overall its in
>> nice shape, but we have a couple things we are trying t...
>>
>> <https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/413832-m5700-knock-other-questions.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 9:36:42 AM CDT, Cecil
>> Bearden <crbearden at copper.net
>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think the possibility of leftover fuel on the piston
>> might be the problem. Steve O may have figured it out.
>> It has been many years since I did a compression
>> analysis. Old Dog forgets older tricks thing!!!
>> Maybe you can get an application list for the rod number??
>> Cecil
>>
>> On 4/8/2020 9:11 AM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>> By reducing compression, would ignition take place at the
>> proper time? Would combustion be complete, or would there
>> be leftover fuel that could change things on next
>> compression stroke, and maybe pre ignite causing the knock?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2020, 5:18 AM Stephen Offiler
>> <soffiler at gmail.com <mailto:soffiler at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I just worked out some math. That engine is 87mm
>> bore x 92mm stroke. 23:1 compression. Swept volume
>> is .547 liter, giving combustion chamber volume of
>> .0238 liter. Now, what-if the con rod was 1mm too
>> short? That adds .0059 liter to the combustion
>> chamber, now .0297 liter, which drops compression
>> down to 18.4:1
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:02 PM Doug Tallman
>> <dtallman at accnorwalk.com
>> <mailto:dtallman at accnorwalk.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The rod being too short can't change injector
>> timing or cause pre-ignition. It would just mean
>> less compression because the piston wouldn't come
>> up as far. Doug T
>>
>> On 4/6/2020 6:24 PM, Dave Maynard wrote:
>>> I know the piston is correct as we replaced it.
>>> But James makes a good point to ponder, if the
>>> rod is too short, it may change injector timing.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 6:03 PM Bo Hinch
>>> <bohinch at gmail.com <mailto:bohinch at gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Or the wrong Piston ( too short or tall ) .
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 12:40 PM Dave Maynard
>>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Actually, did not check length of
>>> connecting rod and its clearance from
>>> head at TDC. But it's not traveling to
>>> close to the head as there would be
>>> damage showing. Just have this new
>>> concern about the wrong rod being put in
>>> by mistake, but that would have been
>>> short, not long.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 1:01 PM Mike M
>>> <meulenms at gmx.com
>>> <mailto:meulenms at gmx.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> When you had it apart, did you check
>>> all the piston,ring and bearing
>>> clearances?
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/6/2020 11:35 AM, Dave Maynard
>>> wrote:
>>>> No sleeves in this engine. Someone
>>>> had this engine apart before and #5
>>>> had a new piston and rod and
>>>> bearings. The seller said it was
>>>> his father's tractor since new and
>>>> never been apart....he lied! There
>>>> was more RTV on oil pan than you
>>>> could imagine and obviously that
>>>> piston and rod and bearings had
>>>> been replaced and I thought they
>>>> had been chasing the noise. Unless
>>>> there was some other reason, but
>>>> dont know.
>>>> My friend and mechanic help
>>>> has a Jacobson mower he's is
>>>> rebuilding that has a 4 cylinder
>>>> version of this motor that appears
>>>> identical except the number of
>>>> cyl's. He found the rod to be the
>>>> same except it a tweak shorter by
>>>> an almost immeasurable amount,
>>>> maybe .005 or .010. Part number is
>>>> almost the same except last digit
>>>> and now I'm wondering if that could
>>>> be someone's mistake. Would shorter
>>>> rod cause preignition? By the way,
>>>> there is no part number on the rods
>>>> so they would have to be accurately
>>>> measured.
>>>> It's going to be a bit before
>>>> I can get this back apart again,
>>>> but hoping to have this fixed in
>>>> time to plow.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 9:08 AM Cecil
>>>> Bearden <crbearden at copper.net
>>>> <mailto:crbearden at copper.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That was one of my thoughts,
>>>> but my experience has been that
>>>> the liner movement was a double
>>>> "thud" once on down stroke and
>>>> once on upstroke.
>>>> Cecil
>>>>
>>>> On 4/6/2020 1:12 AM,
>>>> k7jdj at aol.com
>>>> <mailto:k7jdj at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> Cylinder liner loose. Don't
>>>>> know if this engine even has
>>>>> cylinder liners if it does and
>>>>> that liner is moving you would
>>>>> get click. Did you look
>>>>> carefully at the head when you
>>>>> had it off and look for any
>>>>> sign of head distress?
>>>>> I would do a compression check
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>> Renton, WA.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Roger Moffat
>>>>> <rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:rogerkiwi at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email
>>>>> Discussion Group
>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>> <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sun, Apr 5, 2020 7:43 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Kubota M5700
>>>>> noise
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 5, 2020, at 9:59 PM,
>>>>>> Dave Maynard
>>>>>> <dave at themaplehillfarm.com
>>>>>> <mailto:dave at themaplehillfarm.com>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have cracked injector lines
>>>>>> one at a time, and it gets
>>>>>> quieter on #5
>>>>>
>>>>> But only on #5?
>>>>>
>>>>> When you crack the others the
>>>>> engine misses, but the noise
>>>>> remains?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if something about
>>>>> cylinder 5 is somehow
>>>>> different so that the
>>>>> compression is higher, and so
>>>>> it’s igniting (pre-igniting)
>>>>> too much before top dead
>>>>> centre in just that cylinder?
>>>>>
>>>>> Eg #5 piston slightly higher
>>>>> than the other 4?
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger
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