[AT] OT: non-tractor covid-19 activates
John Hall
jtchall at nc.rr.com
Fri Apr 3 17:34:11 PDT 2020
We have been fortunate over the years to have a shop about an hour away
that is nothing but screw machines. He will make 1 or 100,000. Only ones
I have seen in operation were at a tool show. We try to specialize in
low volume production work and manuals--we have a lot of manual
equipment, but are down to only 3 guys that run it daily, all are over
55. The "great ones" are quickly becoming a thing of the past.
We are bridging the gap with prototrak style machines. Those things can
knock out some 1-2 pc orders quickly.
Everything in the grind shop is all manual, and pretty new.
John Hall
On 4/3/2020 6:38 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Hi John -
>
> Hope the list will tolerate some CNC banter. We have 1 job that we
> hold close, using .0001" offsets; all the rest it would be more like
> .0005" or more. Swiss excels in small precise stuff and also long
> slender stuff, and we are heavy on the latter. Don't need all that
> precision, but it's handy to have: I can give the guys setup sheets
> with .XXX" dimensions and no tolerance, and they can hit the numbers
> dead-on quite easily. Keeps me from having to even think about
> tolerances which is quite a luxury for an engineer.
>
> The job you mention is 6 diameters - that's a lot! I hope at least
> it's steel. I only deal with this issue when making back cuts on the
> sub. We cut a lot of aluminum. I have to keep it down to 3
> diameters, and I still have to deal with taper.
>
> We deal with a couple local general job-shops, and among the rows of
> verticals and conventional lathes, they each have at least one Swiss
> over in the corner. As you know, there's always those special jobs a
> Swiss machine can hit out of the park. But they're kind of their own
> special beast too, a little different mind-set. And in our case, with
> the older machines, there's no Mastercam or conversational programming
> involved, just straight G-code not to mention wait-codes to coordinate
> the sub. Programming can get tricky; fortunately I enjoy it. I make
> a game out of avoiding crashes when developing a new job (and I'd
> score myself around an A-minus)
>
> SO
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:13 PM John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com
> <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
> About .0002' is as close as I care to hold. We often make offsets
> of .0002-3. Want some fun, try turning something 1/4" in dia
> sticking about 1 1/2" out of the chuck---a 10" 3 jaw that is. Slow
> on work so we pulled back in a job we had subbed to a screw
> machine shop. Yeah, those Swiss machines will kick my butt all day
> on the tiny stuff.
>
> John Hall
>
>
> On 4/2/2020 6:03 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>> Our CNC lathes are all Swiss-type, Star and Tsugami, from the
>> 1990's. They all have magazine bar feeders (now they do; one
>> machine used to have a single-stick tube that I retrofitted with
>> an Ebay bar feeder) and we run them unattended after-hours, aka
>> "lights-out". Despite having worked in unknown other shops and
>> beat who-knows how hard, they all can still hold tenths, and the
>> Tsugami has encoders that go out to .00001" - not that we could
>> ever work to that level of precision; between thermal issues and
>> the ability to make measurements down there, that's way beyond
>> what we need or could possibly do. We're slowing down but we're
>> still plodding forward, customers are still ordering, some.
>> We're keeping the people employed and building inventory where it
>> makes sense.
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 9:06 PM John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com
>> <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>> My boss has never bought hardly any used equipment in my 30
>> years--and it was all manual machines (2 horizontals, radial
>> drill, long bed TOS, 3 grinders and some small stuff from an
>> acquaintance that was retiring). All 3 of our CNC lathes are
>> Mori's, great machines. We have never pushed them hard like a
>> lot of shops, their accuracy is great. I do have one that
>> couldn't repeat the last job we ran on it, so it will need
>> some attention from the dealer. Of course as slow as things
>> are now........
>>
>> John Hall
>>
>>
>> On 4/1/2020 7:56 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> Not surprised about the compression, Spencer. Japanese
>>> bikes are built more or less like Toyotas and Hondas (go
>>> figure)... they just last and last. I see you're tooling
>>> up, and wanted to mention THE go-to source for
>>> motorcycle-specific special service tools, Motion Pro:
>>> https://www.motionpro.com
>>>
>>> So, speaking of Japanese.... at work, one of the many things
>>> I do is manage and grow our CNC capabilities. We are small,
>>> funds are tight, and we aren't a job-shop so I can't just
>>> finance a sweet new piece of equipment and pay for it by
>>> selling parts to others. We build parts for our own
>>> internal needs, so I pick and choose parts we currently
>>> purchase from others, figure out what we can save doing it
>>> inhouse, and use the projected savings to fund the
>>> acquisition of used CNC equipment. Once I locate a suitable
>>> machine and coordinate shipping and rigging, it lands on the
>>> factory floor, I next get it all set up, leveled, aligned,
>>> and powered, then on to figuring out what's wrong. Bear in
>>> mind we're talking say $15,000 for a machine that was $200K
>>> new in 1997, so they have some miles on them. I do all the
>>> necessary refurbish, largely myself, but I also know a great
>>> independent CNC repair tech for stuff that is beyond me.
>>> Then I do all the programming, tooling, debug, and finally
>>> write detailed "cookbook" setup instructions so I can
>>> hand-off to the shop floor guys for daily operation. Sorry,
>>> I'm rambling a bit... my main point was that these CNC
>>> machines are Japanese, and ~25 years later, they will still
>>> happily run 10,000rpm on the main spindle, and still hold
>>> tolerances in the +/-0.0001" range. I like older Japanese
>>> stuff. Back to your Kawasaki, we've got two vintage bikes:
>>> my wife has a '76 Honda CB-200 and I've got a '75 Yamaha DT-175.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 8:53 PM Spencer Yost
>>> <spencer at rdfarms.com <mailto:spencer at rdfarms.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> So I mentioned a little while back that I was doing a
>>> valve lash adjustment on my 1989 Kawasaki 454LTD. It is
>>> been awfully hard to start, and valve adjustment is a
>>> common culprit. I’m glad I did it because the
>>> adjustments were definitely out though I could tell they
>>> were not so far out to affect starting to a degree its
>>> been happening. So I started looking for other
>>> explanations. I seem to have spark and had the smell
>>> the fuel on spark plugs. So I didn’t think it was fuel
>>> or spark. I then did a compression test: For a
>>> 30-year-old bike it’s got startlingly nice compression.
>>> 135 both sides cold with no oil. But I also noticed that
>>> it took 15-20 seconds of starter time to actually get
>>> the four or five compression strokes you need to get a
>>> max reading. Hmmm. That’s suspicious.
>>>
>>> So while the alternator crankshaft “peep-hole” cover was
>>> off so I could rotate the crankshaft for the valve
>>> adjustment, I took a look see at how fast the starter
>>> was spinning the engine. The engine wasn’t spinning at
>>> all except about every 5-10 seconds it would catch and
>>> turn over once. Clearly the starter clutch was
>>> slipping. This would explain why I had better luck
>>> roll starting it than using the starter. But the engine
>>> is big enough and I’m small enough that I need a pretty
>>> big hill to roll start it and that just isn’t viable
>>> where I live or wherever I might stop so I have to fix
>>> it to be in “riding” condition.
>>>
>>> So I took this opportunity to order a few things on eBay
>>> like flywheel puller and a fuel petcock that this bike
>>> desperately needs. They should be coming in a few days.
>>> My guess when I get it disassembled is to find weak
>>> springs in the clutch.
>>>
>>> The goal is to have this bike starting and running
>>> smooth before the covid-19 zombie comes to get me so I
>>> can out-run it. :-)
>>>
>>> Spencer
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