[AT] OT: non-tractor covid-19 activates

John Hall jtchall at nc.rr.com
Fri Apr 3 17:34:11 PDT 2020


We have been fortunate over the years to have a shop about an hour away 
that is nothing but screw machines. He will make 1 or 100,000. Only ones 
I have seen in operation were at a tool show. We try to specialize in 
low volume production work and manuals--we have a lot of manual 
equipment, but are down to only 3 guys that run it daily, all are over 
55. The "great ones" are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

We are bridging the gap with prototrak style machines. Those things can 
knock out some 1-2 pc orders quickly.

Everything in the grind shop is all manual, and pretty new.

John Hall


On 4/3/2020 6:38 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> Hi John -
>
> Hope the list will tolerate some CNC banter.  We have 1 job that we 
> hold close, using .0001" offsets; all the rest it would be more like 
> .0005" or more.  Swiss excels in small precise stuff and also long 
> slender stuff, and we are heavy on the latter.  Don't need all that 
> precision, but it's handy to have:  I can give the guys setup sheets 
> with .XXX" dimensions and no tolerance, and they can hit the numbers 
> dead-on quite easily.  Keeps me from having to even think about 
> tolerances which is quite a luxury for an engineer.
>
> The job you mention is 6 diameters - that's a lot!  I hope at least 
> it's steel.  I only deal with this issue when making back cuts on the 
> sub.  We cut a lot of aluminum.  I have to keep it down to 3 
> diameters, and I still have to deal with taper.
>
> We deal with a couple local general job-shops, and among the rows of 
> verticals and conventional lathes, they each have at least one Swiss 
> over in the corner.  As you know, there's always those special jobs a 
> Swiss machine can hit out of the park.  But they're kind of their own 
> special beast too, a little different mind-set.  And in our case, with 
> the older machines, there's no Mastercam or conversational programming 
> involved, just straight G-code not to mention wait-codes to coordinate 
> the sub.  Programming can get tricky; fortunately I enjoy it.  I make 
> a game out of avoiding crashes when developing a new job (and I'd 
> score myself around an A-minus)
>
> SO
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 10:13 PM John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com 
> <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>
>     About .0002' is as close as I care to hold. We often make offsets
>     of .0002-3. Want some fun, try turning something 1/4" in dia
>     sticking about 1 1/2" out of the chuck---a 10" 3 jaw that is. Slow
>     on work so we pulled back in a job we had subbed to a screw
>     machine shop. Yeah, those Swiss machines will kick my butt all day
>     on the tiny stuff.
>
>     John Hall
>
>
>     On 4/2/2020 6:03 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>     Our CNC lathes are all Swiss-type, Star and Tsugami, from the
>>     1990's.  They all have magazine bar feeders (now they do; one
>>     machine used to have a single-stick tube that I retrofitted with
>>     an Ebay bar feeder) and we run them unattended after-hours, aka
>>     "lights-out".  Despite having worked in unknown other shops and
>>     beat who-knows how hard, they all can still hold tenths, and the
>>     Tsugami has encoders that go out to .00001" - not that we could
>>     ever work to that level of precision; between thermal issues and
>>     the ability to make measurements down there, that's way beyond
>>     what we need or could possibly do.  We're slowing down but we're
>>     still plodding forward, customers are still ordering, some. 
>>     We're keeping the people employed and building inventory where it
>>     makes sense.
>>
>>     SO
>>
>>
>>     On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 9:06 PM John Hall <jtchall at nc.rr.com
>>     <mailto:jtchall at nc.rr.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         My boss has never bought hardly any used equipment in my 30
>>         years--and it was all manual machines (2 horizontals, radial
>>         drill, long bed TOS, 3 grinders and some small stuff from an
>>         acquaintance that was retiring). All 3 of our CNC lathes are
>>         Mori's, great machines. We have never pushed them hard like a
>>         lot of shops, their accuracy is great. I do have one that
>>         couldn't repeat the last job we ran on it, so it will need
>>         some attention from the dealer. Of course as slow as things
>>         are now........
>>
>>         John Hall
>>
>>
>>         On 4/1/2020 7:56 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>         Not surprised about the compression, Spencer.   Japanese
>>>         bikes are built more or less like Toyotas and Hondas (go
>>>         figure)... they just last and last.  I see you're tooling
>>>         up, and wanted to mention THE go-to source for
>>>         motorcycle-specific special service tools, Motion Pro:
>>>         https://www.motionpro.com
>>>
>>>         So, speaking of Japanese.... at work, one of the many things
>>>         I do is manage and grow our CNC capabilities.  We are small,
>>>         funds are tight, and we aren't a job-shop so I can't just
>>>         finance a sweet new piece of equipment and pay for it by
>>>         selling parts to others.  We build parts for our own
>>>         internal needs, so I pick and choose parts we currently
>>>         purchase from others, figure out what we can save doing it
>>>         inhouse, and use the projected savings to fund the
>>>         acquisition of used CNC equipment. Once I locate a suitable
>>>         machine and coordinate shipping and rigging, it lands on the
>>>         factory floor, I next get it all set up, leveled, aligned,
>>>         and powered, then on to figuring out what's wrong.  Bear in
>>>         mind we're talking say $15,000 for a machine that was $200K
>>>         new in 1997, so they have some miles on them.  I do all the
>>>         necessary refurbish, largely myself, but I also know a great
>>>         independent CNC repair tech for stuff that is beyond me. 
>>>         Then I do all the programming, tooling, debug, and finally
>>>         write detailed "cookbook" setup instructions so I can
>>>         hand-off to the shop floor guys for daily operation.  Sorry,
>>>         I'm rambling a bit... my main point was that these CNC
>>>         machines are Japanese, and ~25 years later, they will still
>>>         happily run 10,000rpm on the main spindle, and still hold
>>>         tolerances in the +/-0.0001" range.  I like older Japanese
>>>         stuff.  Back to your Kawasaki, we've got two vintage bikes:
>>>         my wife has a '76 Honda CB-200 and I've got a '75 Yamaha DT-175.
>>>
>>>         SO
>>>
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 8:53 PM Spencer Yost
>>>         <spencer at rdfarms.com <mailto:spencer at rdfarms.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>             So I mentioned a little while back that I was doing a
>>>             valve lash adjustment on my 1989 Kawasaki 454LTD. It is
>>>             been awfully hard to start, and valve adjustment is a
>>>             common culprit. I’m glad I did it because the
>>>             adjustments were definitely out though I could tell they
>>>             were not so far out to affect starting to a degree its
>>>             been happening.  So I started looking for other
>>>             explanations.  I seem to have spark and had the smell
>>>             the fuel on spark plugs. So I didn’t think it was fuel
>>>             or spark. I then did a compression test:  For a
>>>             30-year-old bike it’s got startlingly nice compression.
>>>             135 both sides cold with no oil. But I also noticed that
>>>             it took 15-20 seconds of starter time to actually get
>>>             the four or  five compression strokes you need to get a
>>>             max reading.  Hmmm.   That’s suspicious.
>>>
>>>             So while the alternator crankshaft “peep-hole” cover was
>>>             off so I could rotate the crankshaft for the valve
>>>             adjustment, I took a look see at how fast the starter
>>>             was spinning the engine. The engine wasn’t spinning at
>>>             all except about every 5-10 seconds it would catch and
>>>             turn over once.  Clearly the starter clutch was
>>>             slipping.   This would explain why I had better luck
>>>             roll starting it than using the starter. But the engine
>>>             is big enough and I’m small enough that I need a pretty
>>>             big hill to roll start it and that just isn’t viable
>>>             where I live or wherever I might stop so I have to fix
>>>             it to be in “riding” condition.
>>>
>>>             So I took this opportunity to order a few things on eBay
>>>             like flywheel puller and a fuel petcock that this bike
>>>             desperately needs. They should be coming in a few days. 
>>>             My guess when I get it disassembled is to find weak
>>>             springs in the clutch.
>>>
>>>             The goal is to have this bike starting and running
>>>             smooth  before the covid-19 zombie comes to get me so I
>>>             can out-run it. :-)
>>>
>>>             Spencer
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