[AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day

Wed Nov 13 17:16:41 PST 2019

I also went through the Hoover Dam and I remember that Allis Generator.  
It was not very long before 9/11, as I remember thinking that the hard 
hats we got for the tour might be collectors items...   As a Water 
Engineer  inspected the water transfer station at Thunderbird Lake East 
of Norman (USBR project) and the pumps tha moved the water for the 
Norman Water supply were Allis Chalmers.   In fact somewhere around 
here, I have a 50hp Allis Chalmers motor..
Cecil

On 11/13/2019 11:49 AM, Steve Offiler wrote:
> Off topic but Cecil just reminded me of a tour of Hoover Dam I did 20 yrs ago (before 9/11 they would bring you into the very bowels).  At least one of the big generators was built by Allis-Chalmers.   (Others wore GE or Westinghouse plaques).  These generators, working from fuzzy memory, are about 30’ diameter; driven by 2’ diameter shafts coming up from the turbines.  Very impressive in the modern day, and hard to even imagine the manufacturing equipment required  back then.
> SO
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like the Deutz-Allis screwup.   Allis Chalmers was into a lot more than farm equipment, and built very reliable products. Deutz ruined it...
>> Cecil
>>
>>> On 11/13/2019 6:51 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
>>> I should add: Long timers on the list will recall that Homer Donagher of Linton, Indiana was VP of Foreign Sales for Oliver at the time of the White acquisition. Homer was of the opinion that Oliver should have been buying White, instead of the other way around.
>>>
>>> He was forced into retirement at age 60 and the had a 12+ year career as a teacher (which is how I knew him) and school principal.
>>>
>>> I think he holds the record for 'number of times retired' as he more or less formally retired at least 4 times that I know of.
>>>
>>> Mark J
>>>
>>>> On 11/13/2019 6:40 AM, Mark Johnson wrote:
>>>> White Motor bought out Oliver sometime in the early 1960s.
>>>>
>>>> Mark J
>>>>
>>>> On 11/12/2019 12:10 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>> Did White Motor Corp own both Oliver and Moline from the start, or did White take them over later. IMHO, Moline, while a dependable tractor, was the most difficult tractor to ever work on.  Extra bolts, special bolts, such as Torx headed bolts recessed in from the back side of a flange, just very awkward to work on and work with. I had a 5 star and a G1000, and grew up with an R, Z, and a U series.  Big awkward heavy tractors as opposed to Oliver that were big, heavy, but fairly easy to operate, and easy to work on.   Dad & I installed a clutch in the 1950 in a day without splitting the tractor.  We didn't even move the radiator.  Pulled the engine and then set it crossways over the big cast iron belly frame and pulled the 2 speed off the engine and changed the clutch.  I hope to get the 1850 running again.   It was a good baler tractor before we got a cab tractor.
>>>>> Cecil
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/12/2019 11:40 AM, deanvp at att.net wrote:
>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't know. I haven't researched that. But there is a possibility that it might have diverted financial resources that could have been better used in the Agricultural market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean VP
>>>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of James Peck
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:15 AM
>>>>>> To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> Subject: [AT] Oliver's decline was Nice Tractor Day
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did the acquisition of Cletrac help or hurt?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean VP AT List Member <deanvp at att.net>; IMHO, Oliver could have owned the tractor market given they had to financial resources to make the marketing push. In my home county there was only one Oliver dealer whereas John Deere and I/H had a dealer in every town over 2,000 population. The Oliver's in the field were clustered around that one dealer. Dealer support was probably more important to the farmers than the actual tractor.  Oliver was a leader in many innovations that JD and I/H followed with more marketing muscle. I know there was a kind of under the table relationship between JD and Oliver since Waterloo and Charles City were not that far apart geographically. I suspect there was quite a bit of industrial espionage that occurred in the local bars, homes and churches. But…. Oliver was a technology leader. I don’t know how much the fact that the engines were not Oliver designed would have limited them.  But they just didn’t have the financial resources to compete after JD announced the New Generation tractors.  How that development was kept secret in the for several years is somewhat of a feat all by itself. The decision to develop the NG tractors was made in 1953. An expected 5 year development program. But it wasn’t quite ready in 1958 so there was a two year delay in the announcement of the NG tractors.  Had there not been the delay the 30 series two cylinder JD tractors would never have existed. Strangely JD became the largest producer of Agricultural tractors in the US in 1958 overcoming I/H largely due to the x60 series tractor fiasco.  I/h owned the tractor market and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  I/H management’s bad decisions overwhelmed a good product line. In the time period between 1950 and 1955 I/H owned on average roughly 31% of the tractor market. JD’s market share during that same period averaged only 14%.   It just proves that poor management can always overcome good products. . Here is a chart of the overall tractor market. The market fell apart after 1951. The void after WWII had been filled.
>>>>>>
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