[AT] Freeze plugs

Fri Nov 8 21:02:27 PST 2019

Cecil,

I agree. If there is anything we do as antique tractor owners that is troublesome is we don’t get our tractors running hot enough under full load often enough.  I have successfully and significantly improved running and starting performance on old tractors buy doing nothing more than closing the shutters and making them work for a ½ hour or so. 200 degrees plus. Amazing what will get blown out of the muffler and how clean the inside of the engine gets if you are using detergent oil.  Tractors are made to work.

Dean VP

Snohomish, WA 98290

From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 7:07 PM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: Re: [AT] Freeze plugs

Ken:
I think that is the reason that 30wt oil is best to use in the older tractors.  They run too cool ( relative) to get the viscosity improvers  in multi grade to thicken the oil.  I am not sure of the exact water temp that works  the best for multi grade, but I think the 160 deg thermostats would dictate the use of a straight weight oil.  A 195 deg one would probably get the oil hot enough to work with multi grade...

Just my $0.02
Cecil

On 11/8/2019 8:41 PM, Ken Knierim wrote:

Cecil, 

    My grandfather (a doctor) had a similar issue with casting sand in a new V-6 Buick (Skylark?) in about 1980. He bought it new off the lot and had trouble with it overheating constantly (over a couple years as I recall), with many trips back and forth to the dealer. At one point it blew one of the tanks off the radiator. After a lot of wrangling (and some strong urging from my uncle, a prominent lawyer in our small hometown, and an offer from my Dad to return it through the dealership with his bulldozer) the dealership finally took the car back in the shop and tore it down. Turns out the block had casting sand blocking the water jacket like you're describing. Replacement engine from GM and the problems magically ceased. 

Now on a tractor note, any D Case I've had apart has had some issues around the sleeves and generally needs to be dismantled so they can be cleaned up. The DH had half a 5 gallon bucket of rust and dirt in the block when I tore it down. I find it amazing how resilient that old iron was/is to neglect. Can't get away with that on most of the new stuff anyway. Maybe on the Belarus? :)

Ken in AZ

On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 3:17 PM Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net <mailto:crbearden at copper.net> > wrote:

Back in the late 70's and early 80's I had a 77 Plymouth 4dr w/50K miles 
that I used for transportation as a sales engineer. The car had a bad 
rear end whine when I bought it.  I had a few days off, so I pulled the 
rear end out and checked the bearings. They were shot.  I bought a 
bearing kit and started to replace the bearings.  When I pulled the 
pinion out the front bearing was galled badly.  Further inspection 
revealed that the passage that carried oil from the sump to the front of 
the bearing was filled with casting sand.  It took a couple of hours 
with a screwdriver, brake cleaner, and air pressure to get the sand out 
of the passage.  New bearings installed and it sounded fine for another 
50K miles until I sold it.

About a year later I picked up a 75 Dodge pickup with 45K miles and a 
high speed rear end.  It also had a bad whine, the reason I bought it 
for 1/2 price of blue book.  Same thing with the casting sand in the 
pinion oil passage.   This one got a new/used 4.10 ratio third member so 
I did not have to clean out the casting sand.  It left with the core..

In 77 I went to work for the state and the weights and measures agency 
had a Miller welder on sealed bid that they said always overheated..   I 
figured a bad head gasket.  It had a Chrysler industrial 30.  I pulled 
the head and found a bunch of crud down in the water jacket.  I made a 
tee connection to fit the drain plug holes and filled the water jacket 
with the water hose then blasted the air to it.  It took about 30 
minutes and a lot of water to get all the sand out of it.  Again it was 
casting sand. I replaced all the freeze plugs/casting plugs, and bought 
a freeze plug driver set to install them.  I still have the plug drivers.

What was particularly interesting about these parts, is that they were 
all Chrysler products.  Since then any time I pull a head on an engine I 
check deep in the water jacket for crud.  Any engine I rebuild is boiled 
out.

Cecil

On 11/8/2019 9:59 AM, Spencer Yost wrote:
>> On Nov 8, 2019, at 9:32 AM, Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com <mailto:robinson46176 at gmail.com> > wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure why, neither are grape flavored.
> Ha!
>
> I should have been clearer.  I was referring to the cup shaped ones.    I have had good success with the disc/dome plugs. But I have not done nearly as many of his them and my 100% success rate on those is probably sampling error.  (-;
>
> I have a Mac tool called the “slammer hammer”.  Drill a hole in the old plug, screw in the chuck with a screw, attach the slammer hammer and it pops right out.   So I know I am not damaging the sides with the removal of the old plug; which I have seen folks do with drifts, punches and chisels.
>
> And like I’ve said, even though  I’ve probably installed 35-40 and only had a few leak I could not explain why they leaked and have been assuming operator error/technique.
>
> The continental engines on the Masseys had disc/dome type but only the Pacer has had such an extensive rebuild that all the freeze plugs had to be pulled and installed. The 22, colt, mustang and others I think maybe I’ve only done one or two corroded leakers on those.  I can’t remember doing any others.
>
> Thanks for all the continued advice!
>
> Spencer
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