[AT] Diesel rated oil/ Gasoline powered engine?

Tue May 28 15:40:26 PDT 2019

Thanks for all the input Steve, Mark, Jim, Mike, Cecil, Alan,, Henry, Dave and Spencer.  You might guess from my question that I was a bit reluctant to just run the tractor with Diesel rated oil.  So, although I am cheap by training as a product designer, I will bite the bullet and change the oil.  I had ran the engine long enough to fill the new filter and check the oil pressure which was great, about 30 PSI, but wondered about longer term use.  I also learned a lot about oils from your comments.  I found it to be especially interesting / troubling  that the Diesel oil could leave the cylinder surfaces too clean.

BTW, does anyone know the recommended oil for an International 140?  I am guessing straight 20 or 30 for summer or perhaps 10W30 for year around.  Comments and opinions here might be interesting.

Carl

From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique- tractor.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Offiler
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 9:39 AM
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] Diesel rated oi/ Gasoline powered engine?

Interesting article:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28576/comparing-gasoline-diesel-engine-oils-

So diesel oils still contain ZDDP, which was reduced or removed from spark-ignition oils after around SF or SG (I think) due to catalytic converter poisoning.  ZDDP is desirable to have in an oil, absent the concern over the catalytic converter.  

The choices in diesel oils tend to be higher in viscosity; we can all see that on the shelves at the store.  This can be bad news in a modern, fresh, tight-bearing-clearance engine.  Thinner oils are necessary to properly fill the smaller bearing clearances.  On the contrary, it seems that the looser old iron we should be discussing here would benefit from the thicker viscosity in most cases.  Up to the point where there is concern about pumpability when very cold.

That last concern, where diesel oils have higher detergent, doing an excessively good job on the cylinder walls - I'm struggling to understand why this is a factor for gas engines and not a factor for diesel engines.

SO

On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 8:38 AM Mark Johnson <markjohnson100 at centurylink.net <mailto:markjohnson100 at centurylink.net> > wrote:

I don't know how much the formula might have changed, but from the early 1970's through when my dad left the farm in the mid 2000's, we ran Rotella T 15W-40 in a JD 620, 2 730's, an IH 300, AC 190XT, 210, and 8030, several pickup trucks and Gleaner combines, and heaven-only-knows how many cars, including mine (Chevy 350 V8). Never had a lubrication-related failure that I can remember. We bought the stuff by the barrel; usually had two of them around - one at each farm, 14 miles apart. The only reason I no longer use it is that today's cars recommend 5W-20 or 5W-30 viscosity.

The only exceptions were the JD H and A, where we used "Golden Shell" non-detergent SAE 20 or 30, depending on time of year.

Disclaimer: My dad's baby sister was married to a Shell jobber, but we paid the same price as everybody else :-).

Mark J
Columbia, MO
Southern Indiana farm boy now working at the big university :-)

On 5/26/2019 12:04 PM, David Steinich wrote:

I've started using the Rotella T-4 15W-40 in all my tractors that I don't expect to work in the winter. Haven't been doing it long enough to see if there are any damaging effects though. I have read about the additives like Henry mentioned - specifically zinc and how it is bad for catalytic converters, but good for our old valve lifters. 

It's also a lot easier to just have two oils on the shelf.

Dave 

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 11:50 AM Carl Gogol <cgogol1971 at gmail.com <mailto:cgogol1971 at gmail.com> > wrote:

Henry-
Unfortunately, the oil I used is not rated S anything.  How does that change
your answer?
Carl

-----Original Message-----
From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> > On Behalf Of Henry Miller
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2019 9:52 AM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> 
Subject: Re: [AT] Diesel rated oi/ Gasoline powered engine?

Read closely, most diesel rated oils are rated up to sf or something like
that. The s stands for spark ignition, and the f is the revision. If it has
a s rating at all it is better for your engine than a more modern sj rating.
Because of emissions Car engine manufacturers have been unable to get the
older additives needed by your tractor to work and have had to change their
bearings to get an oil that lubricates without destroying emissions. Diesel
engines have different considerations and still have those additives. 

Bottom line, in all antique gas engines I start in the diesel oil section
and then find one with a gas rating. 

--
  Henry Miller
  hank at millerfarm.com <mailto:hank at millerfarm.com> 

On Sun, May 26, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Carl Gogol wrote:
> Without thinking, I just drained my "new" 1968 IH-140 and filled it 
> with Rotella 15W-40 T4 Diesel rated oil.
> It is one of those "All Fleet" oils and I  was easily led astray by 
> that slogan.  Of course I carefully read the label once the jug was empty.
> What would you do?  Drain and replace or leave it in and replace it 
> next year?  Are the additives all that different?
> The IH 140 is an old state road clipper with a side mount "HydroClipper"
> sickle bar mower.  The engine sounds really tight and absent of any 
> sounds common from a long used engine.  It will probably get less than 
> 20 hours use in a year.
> Carl in rainy Mallkus NY
> 
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