[AT] Radiator situation

szabelski at wildblue.net szabelski at wildblue.net
Mon Jun 17 12:43:10 PDT 2019


Tyler,

There can be several reasons for the overheating and air bubbles, some of which have already been mentioned.  

1) Just because the water pump is not leaking and seems to be running fine doesn’t mean it’s pumping enough coolant to dissipate normal engine heat. Over the years the internal impellers can degrade and it doesn’t push enough coolant through the block. There may also be play in the impeller due to a warn bearing and there is excessive play and keeps the right amount of coolant flowing in the block.

2) You May have internal blockage in the radiator tubes or the bottom of the radiator may have years of rust and sludge built up in the bottom that’s restricting coolant flow. Drain the radiator and flush it with a garden hose. Watch what comes out.

3) Air in the coolant can be a cracked head or head gasket. These usually go bad from overheating of the engine, which you apparently did repeatedly. 

4) Overheating can also be caused by external blockage of the radiator.  My 42 H kept overheating and kept pushing coolant out the overfill tube. When I ran without the radiator cap it was OK.  But after shutting down, the coolant would blow out of the radiator like a geyser and you could here the coolant bubbling in the block. Played with it for several months, changing head gasket, checking the head for flatness and cracks, nothing worked.  Finally I shined a flashlight through the fins and couldn’t see any light. Took the garden hose and flushed out all the build up of grass, dirt, twigs, etc.  (70+ years of sucking in dirt). Flushed from both sides until the water came through real good and I could see light through the fins.  Haven’t had an issue since and I’ve really worked the tractor hard since then. Temp gauge doesn’t even get half way in the normal range.

4) Since you drained and added new coolant it is possible that you have air trapped in the block, but that should all come out if you run without the radiator cap for a while and drive around over some even area and get the coolant sloshing around in the bloc. If it continues you’ve more than likely got a head gasket that cracked in a manner that is pushing pressure into the coolant, but not pushing coolant into the oil. The crack just happens to be in the right area between a coolant port and not an oil port.

5) Since you just replaced the coil, and maybe a coil resistor (???), you may have gotten a bad coil and/resistor. Put the old coil/resistor back in if you have it and see if the problem goes away. If it does, than the new coil is bad or is the wrong one for you tractor.

Hope this helps.

Carl Szabelski
Cottrellville, MI

----- Original Message -----
From: joehardy <joehardy at epix.net>
To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:45:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [AT] Radiator situation

Had similar problems with our oliver 77. Frustrating but found had condenser that was faulty. Joe Hardisky ryman farm dallas pa.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Dennis Johnson <moscowengnr at outlook.com> Date: 6/17/19  10:54 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: Antique Tractor Email Discussion Group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> Subject: Re: [AT] Radiator situation 
I agree that 2 problems are described here. 

Also agree that bubbles in coolant are most likely a head gasket or cracked head. For occasional use run with the radiator cap loose and that should let the bubbles escape without loosing coolant. For occasional use you can run like this for a long time.


My thought is the second problem of engine quitting is some electrical device getting hot and it stops working, such as a coil. When it cools down it starts working again.


Good luck,
Dennis


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 17, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:




Tyler, sorry you had problems on the ride. After reading you whole post I would first assume the two issues are unrelated but... here is how they may be related.  Have you checked the timing with a timing light?  It is possible that the timing of the spark
 may be too early causing the spark to occur too soon. That would cause the engine to run too hot. That may be the reason the ignition is cutting out and the radiator coolant to be raising too high znxx overflowing. Sometimes it is hard to differentiate the
 coolant bubbles being caused by the water pump versus a compression leak.  So I would set that aside for awhile. First problem to solve is the engine cutting out. First obtain or order a temperature gauge. While waiting for it check the timing with a timing
 light. IF thzt is ok then check for poor or loose connections. After getting the temp gauge installed go for a test run. Then pursue the coolant issue.



On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 9:03 AM, Tyler Juranek
<tylerpolkaman at gmail.com> wrote:


Hi All,

Last Saturday, June 8, I took my Oliver 88 on a tractor ride. I have

been on this ride for five years, and it In the first, and hopefully

the last, year I didn't finish.

I had just put an electronic ignition on it with a new coil, spark

plugs, wires and cap. On the ride, I rode for quite awhile, (I don't

remember how many miles), and stopped for a break. I started it back

up, and we kept going. The tractor was running like a sewing machine.

Just purring away.

And then all of a sudden, at full throttle, I am running, running,

running, and then it died. No smoke, no leak, nothing. It just quit.

So, they pulled me with another tractor to the side of an elevator.

One of the guys said, "Tyler, try starting that again. Might just be a

vapor lock." So I pushed the button. Sure enough, it started again! It

ran like an Oliver for another 8 miles, and did the same thing again.

This time, some antifreeze leaked on the bottom, but it was a "drip

drip" and then it quit. So it got towed to a guys house, of whom I

knew, and I hopped on a people hauler to finish the ride.

I went back, and started it, and had someone drive it onto the

trailer for me. (Remember, I'm visually impaired). It ran fine then

also.

So I brought it home, put it into the shed. I took both hoses and

clamps off, and found a half galon of coolant came out.

Anyway, we cleaned the fittings up, put new hoses and clamps on, and

bought some water in the gallon jugs at the grocery store. (We had to

replace the pump in our well, and so there's a lot of rust in it now

and didn't want to put that in). Anyway, a few days later, I proceeded

to fill it. My father brought over a funnel that had a little oil on

it. I wanted to clean it, but he said it wouldn't hurt. So when I

dumped the third gallon in, it made a small screech. We realized that

the radiator was full! It uses 4.5 gallons according to the book. It

was filled almost to the brim. (That's too full). So then I went to

start it. My father suggested that we leave the cap off so we could

see what was going on inside the radiator. So we started it, and like

always, it fired right up, and ran fine. However, I had filled the

radiator so full, it was a wet mess. So we left it outside for the

night so that the excess could just leak out and didn't make a mess on

the shed floor.

Yesterday, (Sunday) my grandpa, (The one who gave me the tractor),

was over for a meal and to visit. Grandpa obviously had grown up on

both an Oliver 70 Hart Parr, and an 88 like I have now. So all three

of us went out to look at it. We checked the radiator. It had

obviously leaked down to a "happy point." We added a pint of water,

just to make sure it was over the core.

So here again, I started it, it ran like an oliver the whole time.

However, in both instances I ran it, there have been air bubbles in

the radiator. Both times in running, there is no white smoke, the oil

looks great, and, as my grandfather said, both hoses are the same

temperature. I must also mention that when I had the hoses off, I

flushed the radiator 4 times. There is also supposed to be a

thermostat in the tractor, but apparently it never has had one since I

have had, or my grandfather has had the tractor. It never got hot. So,

this is what we know so far.

1. The day of the tractor ride, it obviously got overheated a bit.

(We are all in agreement that somehow it had to be low on coolant.)

2. My grandfather highly doubts its the head or the head gasket,

because the oil is fine.

3. After 40 minutes of running each time, it didn't get overly hot.

(The temp gauge has never worked on this tractor, but just by feeling

the cap, it only felt "engine warm"

3. It's not the water pump, because water is circulating just fine

and not leaking.

4. It isn't boiling out on the sides of the radiator or anything

after running for awhile.

So, why might it be bubbling? There has to be an air pocket or

something somewhere that's causing this. The other thing that I am

wondering is, "Did the tractor always do this, and nobody realized it

until now, because there was no reason to pay attention to it?"

Should a person just run it down the road at full throttle for a

couple of miles to try to get the air out?

What does everyone think?

Thanks for any help, and sorry for the long post. This is my pride

and joy, and so I want to take great care of it, as always.

Take Care,

Tyler Juranek

IA

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