[AT] Fiat

Mon Jan 21 11:56:58 PST 2019

I do not own any Fiat derived New Holland model tractors, but I do have 
some insight. Yes, Fiat colors and badging look was maintained in some 
markets in Europe for a few years where they were popular. Fiat was 
indeed popular in some countries because Fiat did build low cost and 
reasonably reliable tractors. But it is also true that they required a 
level of care that was higher than our traditional American Antique 
tractors or the British Fordsons. Nearly all of the Ford models were 
initially carried forward and see my later comments about newer models.
      Today, the new farm machinery market is rather different than it 
was even 25 years ago. First, the number of tractor operators is much 
smaller. Second, plastic and electronics have taken over from almost 
only metal and rubber. This has led to lighter, less traditionally 
durable but "easier to operate" units. I place the "easier to operate" 
in quotes because in reality it is simply more like modern cars and less 
like a heavy duty tool as our older machinery is. This leads to lots of 
cabs with air-conditioning, touch screens to operate planters / sprayers 
/ combines / etc. Are they actually easier to operate? Only if one is 
oriented toward those items.
      Second, regarding the suggestion that CNH Global is Fiat, is that 
true. The Agnelli family does own a large chunk of CNH Global. The 
business is operated and managed by hired managers, few of the top 
people are from the Fiat sources and fewer who are Italian. The Agnellis 
appear to have looked for two goals in operating the company. First is 
keeping the business profitable i.e. in the leading group of competitive 
manufacturers worldwide. Second is to not decrease the amount of their 
presence in Italy. The first goal assures that they will try to remain 
competitive with Deere, AGCO, Kubota, Caterpillar, etc. The second goal 
assures that they will have fewer problems from their home country.
      Looking at the designs of CNH equipment, there is a definite 
connection to the Ford, New Holland, Case roots of most of the products 
they currently build. There were initially quite a few Fiat designs that 
carried over, but the later engines are NOT based on the Fiat designs, 
rather on Ford and Cummins. Nearly all of the remaining power train 
components are also substantially different than the Fiat legacy. The 
ONE spot where the old Fiat technology seems to be close to the new 
units is the small crawlers. Those vineyard / orchard / nursery models 
are nearly identical to the White / Hesston / Fiat units of the 70s to 
current, with really only engine updates to meet emissions and noise 
requirements.
      I have purchased 4 new tractors since 1997. 1 was a New Holland 
assembled in Mexico from mostly US and UK parts and design (an NH6610S 
that was essentially a more powerful Ford 6000/8000 from the 1960s) and 
3 John Deere 6430 units (German built, designed and shipped here). I 
only bought Deere because of superior service and sales from the 
dealership when a sales person at the New Holland dealership basically 
abandoned the sale. In looking at the performance of the tractors I 
purchased and the New Holland models that I would have purchased 
otherwise, both are comparable quality, similar features and not cheap 
but very functional. I am also aware of bad units from every 
manufacturer that are out there and I have worked on both our tractors 
and also other farmers units over the years. It appears to me that all 
have pluses and minuses and that except for small tractors all now have 
LOTS of electronics and plastic. I hate the plastic - except the 
fiberglass roofs we have on all of our newer tractors - and don't care 
for the complexity and relatively lower reliability of the electronics. 
On the other hand, there is a bit more power per gallon than the older 
units.
      In short, the current global nature of the economy is frustrating, 
with farming profitability very hard to attain for many reasons. 
Consolidation of manufacturers into very large companies has not been 
helpful for most of us commercial farmers partly due to more return to 
the capital sources that they pay to operate. Also, influences of big 
companies and international players has made it harder and harder to 
survive for us. But just as Cecil likes his Belarus tractors, and some 
like the low tech smaller Mahindras and a few can handle the low quality 
Chinese imports, The world is not the 1940s with lots of interesting 
smaller manufacturers and most of us commercial farmers have a limited 
number of new tractor brands to choose from....
              Grant Brians
p.s. In terms of Fiat direct ownership I don't have any actual Fiat 
tractors. I do have a Long 560 Mudder that I have never put the new 
parts on to use it that was basically a Romanian built tractor using old 
Fiat tooling!
      On 1/21/2019 7:48 AM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> The TS110 New Holland I have was produced at the Ford plant in 
> Coventry England.   It is essentially a 7610 Ford with newer 
> accessories and hood design.   Presently I am replacing the shifter 
> cable for the range shifter.   $265 for the cable that was $125 last 
> year, and a 6 hour job due to the difficulty of getting the shifter 
> end of the cable worked into the mounting in the cab....
> Cecil
>
> On 1/21/2019 8:57 AM, James Peck wrote:
>> CNH is just a cover name for Fiat. Initially, existing Fiat Models 
>> were being labelled New Holland.
>>
>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1990-08-01-9003040603-story.html 
>>
>>
>> (Cecil Bearden} From Google I don't get that..."
>> [One of the top players worldwide in the agricultural and 
>> construction equipment sectors, 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNH_Global was created in 1999 through 
>> the merger of New Holland and 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Corporation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNH_Industrial#cite_note-CNH_AGREEMENT-4
>> In 2011 Fiat Industrial was formed following the demerger of the 
>> activities of Iveco, CNH Global N.V. and FPT Industrial from Fiat S.p.A.
>> In 2013 CNH Industrial was formed following the merger of Fiat 
>> Industrial and CNH Global N.V.
>> In 2014 the company entered into a new licensing agreement with 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumitomo_Group (S.H.I.) Construction 
>> Machinery and completed acquisition of Miller-St. Nazianz, Inc.
>> In 2016 CNH Industrial acquired Kongskilde Agriculture and entered 
>> exclusive mini-excavator alliance with 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Heavy_Industries.
>> CNH Industrial N.V. is one of the world's largest 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_good companies, registered in 
>> the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands with corporate offices 
>> in London. It is financially controlled by the investment company 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exor_(company), which belongs to the 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnelli_family.]
>> In 2014 the price of New Holland Parts were increased 45%. Dealers 
>> told patrons it was due to Fiat entering into CNH. This will end up 
>> being another disaster for farm equipment just like AGCO.
>>
>> (james} The Fiat brand has been New Holland for 29 years or so. Does 
>> New Holland think the brand still has sales appeal
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/brand-new-fiat-tractor-lands-in-ireland-in-the-midlands/ 
>>
>>
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