[AT] OT shifting blame

Tue Feb 26 20:44:50 PST 2019

Cecil,

We owned a 38’ Montana 3400RL for 11 years. I won’t go into all the problems we had with it that were primarily due to bad construction quality. Montana is the highest volume 5th wheel brand in the US and is a division of Thor.   I never expected to have to learn so much about RV’s in order to keep it road worthy or useable..   It was our first RV other than a truck camper we had when the kids were small. It was a top of the line model and was not inexpensive.  But we never had an outing where we did not have something fail.  Fortunately I have enough skills that I was able to fix many of the problems myself. If we would have had to have a dealer fix everything we would have bought the RV twice. I must admit that I learned things that I never expected to or really wanted to. But it didn’t take long where it really started to be extremely annoying.  Our primary usage was our 5 months each year in AZ.  I could write a book about things we had to deal with but one of my favorite excuses that is present in the RV community is as follows:  If you pulled your stick built house down the road like you do your RV you have problems with that too.  My response to all that is I didn’t buy a stick house to pull down the road, I bought a RV that was supposedly designed to be pulled down the road. We paid more for our RV than we did the truck when it was new.  But… it pulled that RV 3200 miles round trip to AZ and back for 11 years.  The truck never failed in any way even when it had over 180,000 miles. The RV was a constant nightmare.  Truck and RV were on the same roads and exposed to the same environment. The RV drove me nuts so we finally sold it. Still own the truck and I will probably be buried in it.  So our introduction to larger RV’s was quite an experience.  I will mention one of the problems that occurred on the 5th wheel that I never fixed primarily because it was so minor and I enjoyed showing visitors the defect.

On our first trip to AZ the first night I discovered a hinge pin rolling around the floor in the kitchen.  Really had me confused as to how it was possible for a pin to work its way up out of a hinge.  I dropped in a drawer since there were other things requiring my attention but  in the back of my mind I was very puzzled as to where it had come from and how a hinge pin could go vertical.  Well, eventually I found the door where the hinge pin was missing. Then I really got confused. The button top for the pin was still on the hinge.  That really had me going. But other things were more important to address, like a chandelier that had come loose from the ceiling and shattered in a million pieces on the floor..  But this little mystery always was floating around in my head while driving down the road.  I finally figured out what had happened and I felt like I was a complete brainless Neanderthal.  Then I started laughing at myself.  What had happened was the hinge had been mounted upside down on the folding door and the pin just fell out like one would expect. I never fixed it in the 11 years we owned the RV.  I had a lot of fun showing the anomaly to visitors and observing their reaction.   We were told by Montana that we had gotten a Lemon.  I asked them if ours was a Lemon how come so many other Montana owners were experiencing the same quality issues.  Conversations became very short. If you want an RV that really looks good and has lots of sizzle Montana is the brand.  If you want an RV that is made with real quality, I have yet to find a brand I can recommend.  Most are made by Thor subsidiaries  and there is a rush to the bottom quality wise.  We were a stranger to the RV industry and they took us in. But if you want to know how to fix many of the problems that show up on RV’s, I became an expert. That and $2.00 might get me a cup of coffee.

Dean VP

Apache junction, AZ

From: AT <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 8:48 PM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: Re: [AT] OT shifting blame

Dean:
Thanks for straightening me out.  Back when we bought our 21ft Airstream from a former dealer, the owner told us that Thor corporation had bought Airstream from Beatrice Foods.  I questioned him at the time about that being the air tool company and he said it was...    Thor Pneumatic tools was bought out by Stewart-Warner...    

Granted Airstream has had a lot of problems with their trailers since the mid 90's.   Frame problems especially.   The older models were well built, but their problem was leaking around the windows and the riveted seams in the shell..   The leakage would rot the plywood floor and the floor supported the shell.   To replace the floor the shell needs to be lifted from the frame and there is an aluminum angle  that sets on the floor and attaches the shell.  Replacement of our 21ft floor would take at least 100 man hours...  It is now too good to scrap, and too bad to really use like we want to...

Cecil

On 2/26/2019 9:02 PM, deanvp at att.net <mailto:deanvp at att.net>  wrote:

Cecil,

Interesting observations.  That I have no argument with but one comment woke me up. 

“ Airstream trailers was bought by Beatrice foods, then sold to Thor Corporation. “”” manufacturer of air tools”””      As far as I know Thor Corporation that bought Airstream is the largest RV Manufacturer in the US with a large variety of brands.    I’m not aware of them being into air tools.  Did I miss something?  BTW, in line with your discussion…. Airstream had a pretty good reputation for quality, however since the Thor manufacturing policies have been instituted the Airstream Quality has steadily declined noticeably.   Thor’s primary focus is to strip the costs out of the RV, focus on producing more units faster at less cost and selling sizzle rather than substance. Thor’s stock has steadily declined and IMHO the Thor management is trying to squeeze every dime out of the multiple brands before abandoning them and sailing off in the sunset with their ill-gotten gains.  Just look into Markus Lemonis and what he and his minions are really doing at Thor. It is sickening.  The RV industry has a poor reputation for quality products. Markus is driving that quality reputation to new lows. 

Dean VP

Apache junction, AZ

From: AT  <mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> <at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com> On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 11:39 AM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com <mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com> 
Subject: Re: [AT] OT shifting blame

That town is no different that every other factory town that lost the main workplace when the manufacturer went offshore, or just went belly up.   Massey went bankrupt due to some bad management decisions and changes in Farming.  Allis Chalmers died due to the Germans buying them out and changing the engine design.  White motor Co. bought Oliver and Minneapolis Moline and just drained the companies of everything.  Then AGCO bought them and only kept the planter.  The later 2-105 White tractors were a later version of the 1850 Series Oliver.  One of the Best tractors made IMO.  I remember when the first Russian wheat deal was signed and wheat went to $6 a bushel.   One Week later John Deere raised prices 20% across the board....  I can't testify to International.   IH had some problems in the 80's.  I remember buying some IH stock for $6 a share in the 80's.   This was when Tenneco was working on buying International Harvester Ag.  Tenneco was first a gas transmission company...    I blame many problems in manufacturing on the big companies in the 70's thru the 90's playing the merger acquisition game.  When a company is publicly traded and their assets are worth more than their stock, they are in a bad position for some greedy entity to buy their stock and dismantle the company for a fast buck.  Airstream trailers was bought by Beatrice foods,  then sold to Thor corporation, the manufacturers of air tools.  Many of these acquisitions just did not make sense and then the companies flounder for several years before going out of business or going offshore....  

Then when you have too many people with no work and the government pays so well for not working, then you have the drug problem...    I guess the old saying Idle hands are the Devils workforce is so true....

Just rambling....     Freezing drizzle for the next 36 hours here, 

Cecil

On 2/26/2019 12:02 PM, Stephen Offiler wrote:

Your statement does not accurately represent what the author is saying.

On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:06 PM James Peck <jamesgpeck at hotmail.com <mailto:jamesgpeck at hotmail.com> > wrote:

This author is claiming they are taking dope in Brantford because MF went out of business.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-in-brantfords-opioid-nightmare-a-community-sees-more-hopeful-days/
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