[AT] 430V

Wed Sep 13 09:02:30 PDT 2017

By all means a back and forth motion is helpful. That is what I was  
thinking when you tried the refrigerant.
I wonder if using the gas if there is enough time for complete heat  
transfer to take place.

How big are the spark plug holes. I was successful unsticking a  
Farmall B by poking dry ice in the spark plug holes. It was  
problematic in that I didn't know which cylinder was stuck and I  
couldn't get the dry ice in fast enough for even heat transfer.

Dry ice and alcohol did you say?

Tom

Quoting Indiana Robinson <robinson46176 at gmail.com>:

> I think one reason "rocking" a wheel sometimes works is that you are
> working both directions. Ever have a tooth pulled? The dentist doesn't just
> place a steady pull on a tooth and pull until your jaw pulls out of your
> mouth (even though it may feel that way). He grabs the tooth and yanks it
> one way and back the other. Back and forth. The travel of the wheel made up
> of all of the minor play in all of those gears allows a small amount of
> impact first one way then the other.
> My point being that I think it is a mistake to keep trying to force the
> piston in only one direction. In the case of Steve's wedges for example it
> would be nice to be able to reverse that force and maybe move the piston
> back a smite (technical term  :-)  ) even if it was only a near microscopic
> amount. One factor to consider I would think is that I think that the push
> Steve is showing would maybe be less likely to cause any damage than
> pulling it back might cause. More strength in compression than in tension?
> Of course trading a stuck piston for a block crack isn't much of an
> improvement so use a lot of discretion. I'm sure you will...
>
> Steve... Am I thinking right that when rocking one wheel  you lose half of
> the force advantage because of the differential gearing and the other wheel
> being stationary?
>
> Our dog and I have been discussing the possibility of multiple universes
> this morning and my head was hurting already. She has some interesting
> thought on the matter but I still think she is wrong...
> :-)
>
>
> .
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Spencer:
>>
>> Getting back to the point where the discussion brushed on the
>> toggle/knuckle press analogy.  See attached sketch.  When almost at TDC, a
>> force applied at the toggle "hinge" (crank pin represents the hinge) is
>> multiplied on each of the "arms" (con rod and crank throw represent the
>> arms).  On the tractor, when you apply force to the rear axle with
>> transmission in 5th, this force tries to spin the crank, creating a
>> torque.  Relation between this torque and the force at the toggle hinge is
>> shown in the sketch.  How big is this force, I asked myself.
>>
>> I looked up the bore and stroke numbers:  4.25" x 4.00" so the crank throw
>> is 2" which is .167 ft.  I made a couple quick assumptions about engine rpm
>> and tractor ground speed in 5th and came up with roughly 30:1 reduction
>> ratio thru the transmission.  That's the engine's advantage over the rear
>> axle, so it is a disadvantage working backward.  If you could hang 100lb at
>> 6' horizontally behind rear axle (say a 4x4 chained to the wheel) that's
>> 600 ft-lb on the axle and with that ratio it works out to just 20 ft-lb on
>> the crank.  With the 0.167 ft throw, that's a force (shown as big F in the
>> sketch) of 120 lb.
>>
>> What I'd be trying to do is apply larger force at F.  I was thinking of
>> maybe driving wooden wedges between the crank and the block.
>>
>> SO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 11:44 PM, Spencer Yost <yostsw at atis.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Be glad to Mike.
>> >
>> > But first I want to mention some of the comments about patience. I've
>> > never had a tractor that begs to be "snuck up on". This is clearly a
>> > tractor that deserves to have a chance to be freed with the least amount
>> of
>> > tool marks, grease removal, and parts replacement. If I can get this
>> > tractor running well without any disassembly or noticeable "technician
>> > marks", this is it.  I feel certain, based on what I've seen, that I can
>> > get this tractor freed and running. If it doesn't run to my satisfaction
>> > then I will tear it down. But I think I can get it to run well without
>> > tearing it apart.
>> >
>> > What I have tried:
>> > 1: I shot it a couple of birds. This did not work
>> > 2: I drink a couple beers and stared at it. This did not work.
>> > 3: I soaked it for three months in a variety of different penetrating
>> > fluids.
>> > 4:: I raised one wheel, put it in fifth gear, and tried to apply force to
>> > the raised wheel while the other wheel was  on the ground and chocked.
>> This
>> > did not work.
>> > 5: I tried raising the entire rear of the tractor with chains on the rear
>> > wheels and 5th gear.  Nothing.
>> > 6:: I tried refrigerant. This seemed promising, but did not do anything
>> in
>> > the long run.
>> > 7: I tried a hydraulic jack  on the counterweight of the crankshaft. But
>> > the front end of the tractor is  the light and I feel sure I'm not
>> putting
>> > much pressure on it.
>> > 8:  I have tried putting air pressure on the cylinder to try to drive the
>> > penetrate down.
>> > 9:  Rapping the piston with a brass bar during all of these
>> >
>> > To do:
>> >
>> > 1:  air pressure:  I am having still a little too much trouble with air
>> > pressure leakage through the valves. So I am closing off the exhaust
>> > manifold and the intake manifold with some bar stock and gasket material.
>> > I have yet to finish this, as the exhaust flange was a real bear to get
>> off
>> > of the exhaust manifold. I just got that off tonight. Hopefully within a
>> > day or three I will have that finished. Then I should be able to apply
>> > plenty of pressure to the cylinder.
>> > 2:  Create an opposing force for the hydraulic jack on the counter weight
>> > on front cylinder. I will be fabricating a frame that  mount to the
>> > cultivator bolts. This will allow the jack to push against something
>> other
>> > than gravity.  This should be easy, but I am cheap. Channel iron, anchors
>> > and eye bolts are expensive.  So I'm trying to find something that I can
>> > fabricate, or buy, that will allow me to inexpensively build some sort
>> of a
>> > frame or chain sling to mount the hydraulic jack on top of.  Still
>> > researching this.
>> > 3:  Additional hyper cooling. I may still try the dry ice and alcohol
>> > method.
>> > 4:  A penetrate that works on the aluminum oxide in the galvanic
>> > corrosion. There are a few compounds that do this. I got one from Brice
>> > Adams who got it from a chemist at the university he works at(methyl
>> > salicylate). If I try any type of solution, this will be it. But it seems
>> > like black magic. So I'm going to leave this for later.
>> >
>> > Things I have ruled out:
>> >
>> > 1: Pulling it. If I can't get it to free with methods I've tried,  I'll
>> > just leave rubber on the road.
>> > 2:  Rust removal solutions. I may try this yet, but the compounds I have
>> > looked at I doubt will do anything, as I believe galvanic corrosion
>> between
>> > the aluminum and iron is my main problem.
>> >
>> > As usual, keep the ideas coming!
>> >
>> > Spencer Yost
>> > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've heard of the diet coke idea as well. To think I used to drink the
>> > > stuff.
>> > >
>> > > Spencer, this has been a long thread, and your patience is incredible.
>> > > Would it be possible to give a short summary of what's been tried so
>> far?
>> > >
>> > > Mike M
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>>
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>
>
> --
> --
>
> Francis Robinson
> aka "farmer"
> Central Indiana USA
> robinson46176 at gmail.com
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