[AT] 430V

John Hall jtchall at nc.rr.com
Sat Sep 9 18:24:55 PDT 2017


Stop now and make your witness mark or take a measurement with some 
calipers!!!! No better feeling than when you first get something stuck 
moving. I'm intrigued by the use of refrigerant--tell us more of how you 
did it.  Thermal shock, for lack of a better term, has been tossed 
around for years on freeing stuck engines, whether it is dry ice, 
boiling water, or a blow torch.

John Hall


On 9/9/2017 6:13 PM, Spencer Yost wrote:
> Hey Charlie,
>
> I actually had the starter off the tractor most of this time. I just recently put it back on to try the starter.   The starter drive is definitely intact, on the starter, not jammed in the ring gears.
>
> I am trying to be mindful of other possible causes as I do this. But with the oil pan off and the starter out, and a borescope, I'm just not seeing anything that could be jamming it. I can't get a good look at the top part of the camshaft gear and camshaft. It is possible I would not be able to see if there was a jam with a broken tooth.
>
> Continued some work on it today. I tried the refrigerant idea. This is the first time I've tried it. Vacuumed out the penetrant and dumped half the can in the top and some on the skirt from the bottom then tried jacking against the counterweight.  I would swear on everything holy that I heard a sound like a stuck piston moving ever so slightly in a cylinder.  If you have ever freed a  stuck piston, you know what sound I'm talking about: a little metallic pop.    But I could not get it to keep moving. Used the other half a can again and no movement.  Unfortunately I didn't make any good reference mark so I can't tell if it actually moved or not.  However the force I was applying was turning the crankshaft backwards and was pulling number one piston down. So I looked at the top and I think I see a little bit of fresh metal above piston circumference in the top of the cylinder. I am pretty sure it moved ever so slightly. But I swear I cannot get it to keep moving.  Maybe the po!
>   p was just expansion and contraction and then fresh metal is just wishful thinking?
>
> Spencer Yost
>
>> On Sep 8, 2017, at 1:12 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Spencer.  Try one thing if it's not too much trouble.
>> I don't know enough about that tractor to know how
>> difficult it might be.  Remove the starter and make
>> sure the drive gear on the starter is not stuck in the
>> flywheel.  I just have a feeling your stick is not in the
>> engine.  Just a gut feeling.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Spencer Yost
>> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 12:59 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] 430V
>>
>> It's great to hear from you Gil, I appreciate  the advice.
>>
>> Since I last wrote I tried a couple more times with the electric starter,
>> still no go. I have also tried a hydraulic jack against the counter weight
>> of the crankshaft. All it did was lift the front of the tractor. I did make
>> a concerted effort to confirm the number two cylinder was not stuck.
>> Obviously I can't be 100% sure but it drains penetrating fluid quickly from
>> what appears to be the entire circumference.
>>
>> Continued some gentle rapping on the number one piston with the rubber
>> mallet and wood stick. I have continued to add air pressure to the cylinder,
>> now with ATF as the penetrating  fluid.
>>
>> After continued inspection, I have determined that what I am fighting is
>> limited water intrusion on a very low hour engine that has no wear or slop.
>> If it had been as worn as most tractors from the 50s, I don't believe the
>> amount of water as evidenced by the limited amount of rust would have stuck
>> the engine.
>>
>> The cabling necessary to get pictures for you folks is on its way.  But that
>> will be next week sometime.
>>
>> It turns out that our backyard iron pot  has been used for dying  fleece by
>> the wife. I don't think I want to add dyed water to the tractor(once you dye
>> in iron, everything you put in will be dyed for many, many months). I think
>> I want to look into the magnetic heaters that I think Cecil recommended. But
>> anecdotally I have heard many folks have mixed results with them. Are there
>> any brands or models with you folks can recommend? Us folks in the south
>> don't have to know about these things.  (-:
>>
>> Spencer Yost
>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 5:41 PM, vschwartz1 at comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>> Spencer;
>>> I have fought the urge to jump into this fray about as along as I can
>>> stand it. So here goes. With all of the things that you have tried and all
>>> of the very good ideas that have come from the various members, I feel
>>> that your only problem left is simply that the engine will not turn. The
>>> various and sundry efforts have been to no avail. I feel that the real
>>> problem is that close proximity to TDC and BDC make it near impossible to
>>> apply any great pressure to that non-rotating engine. I believe at this
>>> point I would try to apply some hydraulic pressure to the number two crank
>>> throw. I believe it would be near impossible to apply any appreciable down
>>> pressure to the number one throw. I certainly do believe that if you get
>>> the right pressure in the right spot, the engine will turn. I am
>>> definitely not a fan of hammer blows, at least not formidable hammer blows
>>> unless you are in a position of reducing something to junk.
>>> I do believe that you will succeed. This tractor has not had that much
>>> lockup time.
>>> Good luck with it.
>>> Gil
>>
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