[AT] 430V

Spencer Yost yostsw at atis.net
Sun Sep 3 15:20:42 PDT 2017 

Good call out  Steve, I had not considered that. The stuck piston is very near to TDC.  Just a quarter inch to half-inch to go.  As Dean said, its beginning to feel like I'm SOL

Number two cylinder valves are closed. My guess is the engine stopped on the number 2 compression stroke. So it barely turned over bottom dead center. #1 exhaust valve is open.  Which means the number one cylinder is probably just beginning to leave the exhaust stroke.  

To Charlie: one of the reasons I'm trying my best to unstick it without a lot of teardown is because of the backstory of this tractor. It was running as recently as a year or two ago and lost it's covered storage even more recently. It can't possibly have rusted too bad in that length of time; one would think.  It's backstory is enough of a reason to try less invasive means.  Also the borescope reveals cylinder walls that are not in that bad shape. Again this is only having a quarter to a half inch to look at though .  There were a lot of rust flakes from the exhaust manifold in there and I flushed and vacuumed them out. And the combustion chamber has some rusting. But the cylinder walls are surprisingly good - just some black markings and some very light rusting.  Once the piston moves I may find something different.  

Thanks for all the continuing advice.

Spencer SOL Yost

> On I Sep 3, 2017, at 4:08 PM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'll second what Charlie said, and add another factor:
> 
> You've been in there with a bore scope, right?  Is the stuck piston near
> TDC or BDC?  If so, the geometry isn't giving you much mechanical advantage
> against the piston.
> 
> SO
> 
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 12:26 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Spencer, have you tried loading pressure against it in the other
>> (opposite) rotation?
>> 
>> I am still of the personal opinion, if it was mine and stuck that tight,
>> I'd want to see what's going on inside it.  Even if you get it to break
>> loose aren't you going to be worried about the damage that might
>> be done if you start and run it without knowing exactly where and why
>> it is stuck?
>> 
>> Charlie
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Spencer Yost
>> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2017 9:37 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] 430V
>> 
>> Thanks Tom. The tractor is a very low hour tractor, and I am very amazed at
>> how little play there is to develop any real acceleration with the roll
>> back-and-forth method. I have tried chocking one wheel, raising the other
>> and shock loading that way. With the set up I just put together yesterday I
>> can  vertically rock , from the operator's platform, the tractor  and get
>> some real good up and down shock loading(engine hoist arm flexes a bit).
>> 
>> PS.  The hoist did not leak down over night.
>> 
>> Spencer Yost
>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 12:35 AM, toma at risingnet.net wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think a little shock action (clunk clunk back and forth)  in 5th gear
>>> may produce better results than constant weight.
>>> Tom
>>> --
>>> Sent from myMail app for Android Saturday, 02 September 2017,
>>> 08:58PM -0700 from Spencer Yost < yostsw at atis.net> :
>>> 
>>>> I just checked on the tractor and Nada.  The hoist cylinder is holding,
>>>> and now that I think about it, I think I did replace the cylinder about
>>>> eight or 10 years ago. I think the fear I have about the cylinder not
>>>> holding relates to the old one that I used to have that I have since
>>>> replaced.
>>>> 
>>>> I had not thought about the 4x4 straps, but I had thought about moving
>>>> the hoist back some. I have limited space to work with, so I ruled that
>>>> out.  As for weights I may add some tomorrow. I have some weights from
>>>> the  John Deere B I used to own, and some weights  for my Pacer that are
>>>> not installed currently.   As for gearing I am using fifth gear. I did
>>>> only earn a B in or physics so I may be wrong about this; but I believe
>>>> 5th gear(this tractor does have the 5 speed option) on the wheel is the
>>>> same thing as first gear in normal engine powered circumstances and
>> would
>>>> generate the most torque.  I would love some discussion on this. I don't
>>>> have a lot of confidence in my understanding.
>>>> 
>>>> Spencer Yost
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Spencer Yost
>>>>> On Sep 2, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Dean VP < deanvp at att.net > wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> What would increase the torque would be strapping a 4x4 to each wheel
>>>>> and
>>>>> then using the hoist 6 feet or so feet back away from the wheels.
>>>>> Adding
>>>>> weight to the tractor over the axle will also help.  I'd have to think
>>>>> about
>>>>> it  a bit which gear would transmit the most torque to the engine.
>>>>> Inserting the right length board under the hoist would eliminate any
>>>>> leak
>>>>> down.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:  at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Spencer
>> Yost
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 2, 2017 6:02 PM
>>>>> To:  at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>> Subject: [AT] 430V
>>>>> 
>>>>> The shop reorganization happened today, so I had the opportunity to try
>>>>> to
>>>>> apply constant pressure to the engine by raising the rear wheels. An
>>>>> engine
>>>>> hoist and a fence stretcher used as a spreader bar seems to fit the
>>>>> bill.
>>>>> The cut-outs in the wheels that the chain loop through are at 90
>> degrees
>>>>> to
>>>>> vertical so I should be generating as much force as possible.  Engine
>>>>> still
>>>>> has not moved but I just started.  The engine hoist cylinder is not
>>>>> leaking
>>>>> down like I seem to remember it would, so I will leave it overnight.
>>>>> 
>>>>> PS: To show you were an optimist I am, I drained the penetrating fluid
>>>>> from
>>>>> the cylinder so it wouldn't spray all over the shop when the engine
>>>>> let's
>>>>> go. :-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> PSS.  I remember enough of college physics to know that lifting it
>> more
>>>>> than just barely off the ground actually decreases force So I'll keep a
>>>>> close eye on the engine hoist to make sure it's not leaking down.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Stayed tuned.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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