[AT] Farm flooding update California - new info

Sun Feb 5 11:50:19 PST 2017

Grant, while I'm no fan of the EPA or the Corps of Engineers I agree they
do some good.  I won't get into that.  Ultimately, the best thing that has
happened to solve our problem of the state filling in water sheds to build 
roads
has come not from common sense but from somewhat overzealous 
environmentalist
types.  They file law suits to keep individuals and governments from 
"disturbing"
wetlands and that has caused the state to start bridging roadways over 
watersheds
rather than filling them.  It's a shame that working people don't have a 
means to
work together to solve those problems like the "green" folks do.  Far more 
damage has
been done to landowners and citizens by building these fill dirt roadways 
than was done
to the swamp land and it's critters but the landowners did not have the 
where with all  and
awareness to stop it.

I don't know if it's happening in other areas or not but they now have a 
method of building roadways
across wetlands here without even touching the land below the bridge.  They 
send in low ground pressure
vehicles initially to cut the trees in the right of way.  From then on the 
road is built from above
by extending a cantilevered structure that serves as a work platform.  The 
pilings are driven from it such that
only the exact footprint of the piling is disturbed.  Then precast beams are 
extended out to the pilings and the
road way is built on top of them.  Once the pilings are driven the ground is 
never touched again.  It's amazing to
see but very expensive.  However, it solved another problem because 
eventually there won't be enough land left
to dig fill dirt from to build in the old style.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Grant Brians
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 9:23 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Farm flooding update California - new info

Charlie, I know what you are talking about in regards to roads causing
flooding, habitat damage and farm destruction. In the 1940's the "best
practice" pushed by the Army Corps of Engineers and also the engineering
schools changed to raise all roads to avoid infrastructure damage to the
roads. This was a continuation of the old (pre-Crimean war) practice of
British Army engineering to allow for "all-weather troop
transportation". The British learned in Afghanistan in the 19th century
that that practice did not work in many places and modified their
practices where they had knowledge that it would cause problems.
      Unfortunately, thanks to the rejection of "primitive" technologies
by our country in the 20th century and a demand like the all-weather
troop transport mandate for automobile and truck availability of roads
regardless of weather or conditions, Civil Engineers started the raised
road above the highest flood elevation practice. While in practice this
is not cost-effective, on paper and in terms of lowering complaints
about closed roads it seemed to make sense. This was never mandated on
the states by the federal government unless the Army Corps of Engineers
was involved in the project.
      Whatever a person's opinion of the EPA, that agency has been a big
factor in changing the practices by states and counties to damage
less.... Also, some engineering schools started to pay attention to
damage analyses from road embankments a bit more and stopped teaching
the necessity of all raised above floodplain roads using cheapest
materials - usually the soils near the construction site. Environmental
analysis of projects has improved many of them and substantially
decreased collateral damage. The key is pairing analysis with a
combination of common-sense and political savvy to sell the best
solutions rather than the apparently short term cheapest.
                 Grant Brians
On 2/4/2017 3:14 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> All of the flooding here in eastern NC since 1999 was if not
> completely caused by the state and federal government at least
> made much worse by their actions.  What happened here is
> that over the years the state built new highways and instead of
> bridging over the natural flood plains of the rivers and creeks
> they dammed them up with fill dirt only bridging the actual bodies
> of water.  In many places along all the major rivers in the eastern
> half of this state there are dams in the form of highways that are 
> sometimes
> as much as several miles long and 20 feet or more high.
> Weather runs in cycles.  Starting about 1999 we went back to a cycle of
> storms and rains similar to what we had in the early 1950's.  Back then
> there
> were floods along the water sheds but when those conditions returned 
> (first
> in
> late 1999) the flooding was twice as bad (deep) as ever before in history.
> Since
> that 99 - 2000 flood we have had several others that were not as bad but 
> far
> exceeded
> the floods of the 50's.  The government knows full well they are
> responsible.
> They don't admit it BUT now the new roads are built by bridging the entire
> width of
> the body of water and it's watershed (swamp).  Also, in the environmental
> impact study
> of a planned highway near our farm, the construction of a new bridge
> requires the old
> bridge and it's road bed across the flood plain to be removed.  If that
> isn't an admission i
> don't know what is.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike M
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 3:40 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Farm flooding update California - new info
>
> Probably not in Grants situation Dave, but local governments can
> definitely cause flooding problems through lack of proper planning and
> poorly engineered drainage systems. Approving a Walmart with a giant
> impermeable asphalt parking lot on what used to be farm land is an
> example. Where the water flows and how it's routed is the job of
> engineers with the county drain commission.  If that water runs into the
> drains, and because of a poorly designed system, floods my house, that
> is the counties fault.  When I was about 15 a had a friend who's dad
> built a new house on a lot they owned. Behind our house and theirs was
> an old gravel pit and woods. A developer bought the land and added on to
> our subdivision. Obviously the plan had to be approved by the local
> government and it was, and the road was built and completed along with
> drains. They didn't change the grade of the land at all, just cleared
> the trees, smoothed the gravel and installed the road. During the first
> heavy rain we received after the road was installed the new road created
> a giant river. The drains couldn't catch the water fast enough, and a
> river of water filled my friends basement with about 3' of sand. The
> county had to pick up the tab for cleanup, repair and had to install
> additional drains so that wouldn't happen again. Engineering failure,
> human error, it happens.
>
> Mike M
>
>
>
> On 2/4/2017 2:43 PM, Dave wrote:
>> I'm a bit confused here. Can someone please explain how the flood 
>> happened
>> “because of neglect on the part of the state.” Thanks!
>> Dave
>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2017, at 2:22 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> That's a good idea Steve, wonder if there is a way for Grant to "find"
>>> his dirt and put it back.  Many times talking to the crews doing the
>>> work is much more effective than asking city hall.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/4/2017 2:08 PM, Steve W. wrote:
>>>> Grant Brians wrote:
>>>>> Well, here is the updated info on our flooding here. I don't usually
>>>>> post when I am sad, but this morning I am. Yesterday I was able to
>>>>> finally look at just how bad the flood damage was to our farm from the
>>>>> Pacheco Creek flooding. We have a 6 foot deep gully that is up to 30
>>>>> feet wide through two of our most productive fields! In addition the
>>>>> remainder of one of those two is covered with a layer of rocks from 
>>>>> the
>>>>> flood. I am just trying to figure out whether there is some way to fix
>>>>> this economically. We shall see. Over 40 acres of land damaged there 
>>>>> in
>>>>> those two fields. I was taking video last night and can't post that,
>>>>> but
>>>>> I am attaching a picture that shows where they are on the edge of the
>>>>> open water where one creek heads into the lake. Every part of this
>>>>> picture with water except for the creek beds is normally fields,
>>>>> pastures and homes....
>>>>>                  Grant Brians - Hollister,California farmer of
>>>>> vegetables
>>>>> (and floods?)
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AT mailing list
>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>
>>>> Sounds like the damage that happened to the neighbors field when it
>>>> flooded because of neglect on the part of the state. You may want to
>>>> talk to any of the crews that are doing repairs to things like roads,
>>>> bridges and such. The farm up the road had his fields all restored as
>>>> part of the repair process. They even added some "extra" land when they
>>>> moved the creek back into the original channel from the 60's.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't cost him directly at the time out of pocket as the repairs came
>>>> out of the state funding. So he got a lot of his own money back.
>>>>
>>>>
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