[AT] synthetic oil - gas versus diesel trucks
Dean VP
deanvp at att.net
Sat Nov 19 20:41:56 PST 2016
Besides my Diesel P/U Truck I own a JD 750 Compact Tractor with a 18 HP
Diesel YanMar Engine that I have a front loader for and a 4 way blade. .
I've owned it since 1998 and it has essentially been trouble free except for
the brakes freezing up if left outside in the rain. That problem got solved
when I found and replaced the "O" rings that seal the brake pedal shaft. I
sits more than it is used but is always ready to go when I fire it up.
Change oil and filter when needed and it is a very reliable tractor. I even
rolled it a couple summers ago and thank God for a Roll Bar I was only beat
up a little bit. I sincerely don't think a gas version would have been this
reliable. Also have several different 3 point implements for it. The lifting
capacity is somewhat limited but I've learned to live wth it. And.... it is
very miserly on Fuel. One of my better tractor acquisitions.
Dean VP
Snohomish, WA 98290
It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Bearden
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 4:58 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] synthetic oil - gas versus diesel trucks
The EPA war on diesels is just like any war. No money is made in
peacetime!! That said, I love diesels, but for my everyday driver, I prefer
a gasoline engine. I had 2000 F250 4wd w/ the 7.3L diesel and put over 120K
on it. It was driven in many of the back roads of Oklahoma while I was in
the field for a state regulatory agency. My biggest concern was when in
mud. The engine was so heavy on the front axle, the front end would go down
in Oklahoma's red clay. A gasoline
truck of the same make and equipment could go where mine would not. I
loved that truck, and nearly lived in it for 6 years. When it was wet, I
had to be very careful.
For a daily driver, the gasoline is just more adaptable to start and stop
driving while working or running errands, and the noise of a diesel is a
pain in city driving while running errands, and going through drive-thru
facilities. My ideal truck would be a crew cab 4wd long bed single wheel
one ton with a propane conversion. I am working on one and should have it
going by spring.
For my tractors and farm equipment, diesel cannot be beat. The
dependability factor outweighs every other problem. For instance, I keep a
150+ cfm compressor available to blow off the grass and hay buildup on my
mowers, swathers and balers. It keeps them from rusting as much whether
they are stored inside or out.. I fought with 2 Sullair 185 compressors for
several years, they had a Ford/Mazda gasoline 4cyl engine. It would take
several times to start before the
engine would overcome the pressure build up to run when cold starting.
I would have to run for 5 minutes with the choke before they would stay
running when the air was needed. When the last Sullair quit, I found an
Ingersoll with a 3-53 Detroit. I had to do a little work on the air
regulator, but I just pull the switch, push the starter button, and open the
valve on the air.
If I could find a diesel ATV that I can afford, I would buy one. I have
fought with the gasoline ones for 20 years. Dating back to the 2 cycle
Polaris atvs we used. We have to have them here on the farm, and I
have to have one as a motorized wheel chair. My 750 Arctic Cat is in
the shop for a fuel pump ( $500 repair) after only 2 years use. My Kawasaki
360 has had numerous problems with the carburetor and warm up, and the 366
Arctic cat has problems with the automatic choke. A diesel would not have
the problems we are experiencing.
Just my $0.04
Cecil in OKla
On 11/18/2016 11:49 PM, Mike M wrote:
> There was a time when diesel paid off, however given the EPA'S heavy
> hand in regulating auto diesel's that time has passed. They are forced
> to be so clean, you could use them in a ventilator and not know the
> difference. Meanwhile I see big rigs belching out black soot like
> crazy. New diesel trucks and cars get a fraction of the MPG that they
> did 20 years ago. Thanks big government and thanks EPA, we now burn
> more fossil fuel,with all it's associated costs, than we did when we
> were following Europe's protocols.
>
> Mike M
>
> have a 2001 F250 super duty with the 6.8L V10.
>
>> It has 260,000 to 280,000 miles on it. I have had one blown spark
>> plug. Screwed it back in drove it home and repaired the head with a
>> timeserver insert. Cost $300 for tooling. AC clutch $40 Replace the
>> fuel pump about $100. Changed oil, plugs three times, brakes once.
>> Need brakes again. I pulled my tractor and 30ft bumper pull trailer
>> to Colorado over red mountain pass, Wolf creek pass and many others
>> three or four times.
>>
>> The V10 gets 10 mpg average on trips pulling the trailer. 13 mpg back
>> and forth to work and 10 mpg in town.
>> The only time I wished I had a Diesel is when I am over 10,000 ft
>> altitude. I have pulled my RV over passes 12,000 ft high. Slow but no
>> problems.
>>
>> I did all repairs and maintenance my self. I could not of done that
>> with a Diesel. The acquisition cost was $18,000 used in 2004. The
>> cost of a Diesel was over $30,000 to $40,000 for the same age vehicle.
>>
>> Even with better fuel economy I do not think I could have done better
>> with a Diesel considering repairs and maintenance of a Diesel.
>>
>> If I spent a lot of time in the mountains or hauled heaver loads then
>> A diesel would make sense. Most of the time I am in the flat lands
>> running empty so the Gas works for me.
>>
>> New truck? I would have to research it. Modern Gas and the Diesel
>> engines are much more complicated and difficult to work on. Very
>> expensive to repair.
>>
>> I am not worried about resale value. I am running this truck until
>> it quits. It that time it will owe me nothing.
>>
>> Besides the V10 is much more fun to drive than a Diesel.
>>
>> On 11/18/2016 9:03 AM, Spencer Yost wrote:
>>> I have owned nothing but diesels for the last 10 years(cars too). My
MH Pacer and my John Deere B are the only two large engines on the property
that are gasoline.
>>>
>>> Dennis, my experience has been similar to yours. Approximately 30 to 40%
better mileage using fuel that only cost 10% more at most. Always seems to
be a no-brainer for me. The difference in acquisition cost is always made
up by better reliability, better resale, and better longevity.
>>>
>>> And that 70,000 mile rule for owning a diesel? That's how you cash flow
a diesel(added interest and principal on a larger loan). If you use cost
of ownership combined with cost of operation per mile over the life of the
vehicle, diesels have always worked out slightly better for me. Just
remember cash flow is how you keep your head above water, but balance sheet
is how you get richer.
>>>
>>> If you trade frequently I could see where a diesel doesn't work.
>>>
>>> Spencer Yost
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2016, at 9:34 PM, Dennis Johnson <moscowengnr at outlook.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This is first real road trip without a trailer in my EcoDiesel 1500 4x4
after repairs and exhaust cleaning. Mileage is averaging 26.5 around the
Tulsa area. Was 25.6 on interstate running 75 MPH between Houston and
Oklahoma border, and hit 27 on a stretch of road that was 65 MPH. Was
getting about 25 to 25.6 just driving around Houston.
>>>> With a 9000 tow rating on this I am happy again. With 50K miles per
year it is still making sense or me to have the Diesel. My son has new Ram
Rebel 1500 with Hemi and is averaging around 14, maybe 15 on loner trips.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2016, at 7:41 PM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Shopping for my first new truck in 20 years, I was a bit surprised
>>>>> by how far they'd come. My old truck, 1997 F250HD 4x4 with 5.8
>>>>> liter gas engine, had 8600 GVWR and 13,500 GCWR. New truck, 2016
>>>>> F250 4x4 with 6.2 liter gas engine has 10,000 GVWR and 19,500
>>>>> GCWR. And the new truck even gets better fuel economy (Ok not a
>>>>> huge difference, but better, in the 10% ballpark) in the exact same
driving patterns.
>>>>>
>>>>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Dean VP <deanvp at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't mean to imply the F350 SRW would have a higher payload or
>>>>>> have better towing capacity than a Dually. I just don't like the
>>>>>> extra width of a dually and it's less traction when empty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean VP
>>>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mike M
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 3:38 PM
>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] synthetic oil - gas versus diesel trucks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not sure about that Dean, the new Dodge dually with the 6.4 Hemi
>>>>>> will pull in the mid 16K range.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/17/2016 4:52 PM, Dean VP wrote:
>>>>>>> I purchased a New 2003 Ford F250 7.3 Liter Diesel and now have
>>>>>>> 180,000 plus miles on it. 10 of the 13 years I pulled a 38'
>>>>>>> Montana 3400RL 5th wheel with it over 4,000 miles a year in
>>>>>>> mountains. Only trouble I've had with it other than normal wear
>>>>>>> items is the Alternator which died in the 1st year. A gas
>>>>>>> engine would not have been able to handle the
>>>>>>> 13,000 lb 5th wheel. Averaged over 12 MPG pulling the 5th wheel.
>>>>>>> Could get 20 mpg on open highway if I stayed under 60 MPH. MY
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>> regret
>>>>>> was that I bought a F250 rather than a
>>>>>>> F350. I purchased the F250 because it had more towing
>>>>>> capacity(equipment
>>>>>>> trailer) than the F350. Didn't consider we would be buying a 5th
>>>>>>> wheel
>>>>>>> 3 years later. The F350 has more payload capacity which id=s
>>>>>>> the key spec for 5th wheels. Added air bags to improve the
>>>>>>> effective payload on
>>>>>> the F250.
>>>>>>> The only difference between a 2003 F250 Camper Special and F350
>>>>>>> SRW was an extra leaf in the rear springs. Same engine,
>>>>>>> transmission, rear axle, brakes, etc. Would buy a F350 SWR over a
F350 Dually.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dean VP
>>>>>>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of David
>>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 2:08 PM
>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] synthetic oil - gas versus diesel trucks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I determined years ago that my needs were better suited for a gas
engine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using a new email address in hopes I can reach the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NW NC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2016 3:13 PM, Herb Metz wrote:
>>>>>>>> Good point Grant; don't remember that issue being mentioned in
>>>>>>>> previous comparisons. Will admit that I don't always seriously
>>>>>>>> analyze such comparisons. I will note that I was initially
>>>>>>>> upset when I found out a couple years ago that my favorite
>>>>>>>> (Dodge Dakota) pickup did have diesel optional; in Africa.
>>>>>>>> Herb(GA)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Grant Brians
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 2:30 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] synthetic oil - gas versus diesel trucks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I made the choice last year to buy two Gasoline vehicles (E350
>>>>>>>> box truck and Ford Transit) rather than the Diesel versions of
each.
>>>>>>>> Based on the fuel consumption and lower price per gallon of
>>>>>>>> Gasoline versus Diesel, I made the right choice for us. I must
>>>>>>>> also say that the E350 will have exceeded 70,000 miles in the
>>>>>>>> year and the Transit is about
>>>>>>> 37,000 miles!
>>>>>>>> What I do not know is how many miles each will go ultimately,
>>>>>>>> but it appears that all of the calculations will work out
>>>>>>>> better. A factor that is killing me that would still be a
>>>>>>>> problem with Diesel is that the tires last a fraction as long
>>>>>>>> as they used to on all of our
>>>>>> vehicles.
>>>>>>>> Tire life has decreased immensely since the 80s....
>>>>>>>> Grant Brians - Hollister,California vegetable,
>>>>>>>> herb, edible flower, fruit and nut and seed farmer
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/16/2016 1:16 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Gil, I'm late coming to this conversation but I'll tell you
>>>>>>>>> what I read in a farm magazine many years ago. The article
>>>>>>>>> said if you don't drive a truck (pickup or medium duty) at
>>>>>>>>> least 50,000 miles a year you can't justify the expense of
>>>>>>>>> purchase and maintenance on the
>>>>>>> diesel.
>>>>>>>>> That was probably 25 years ago and I'm sure the economics have
>>>>>>>>> changed over time but it's still a point worth considering.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: vschwartz1 at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 9:43 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Antique
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] synthetic oil
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I want to thank everyone who has commented on this thread. It
>>>>>>>>> has been a most interesting subject and all comments have been
>>>>>>>>> very enlightening. At my age I have only thought about buying
>>>>>>>>> a diesel engine pickup and this subject of conversation has
>>>>>>>>> helped make up my mind. It seems as though buying a diesel
>>>>>>>>> engine is like buying trouble unless you really need it for
>>>>>>>>> work, I don't. Initial cost of a diesel never came into the
>>>>>>>>> conversation but I know something about the initial cost and
>>>>>>>>> normal maintenance costs after the warranty expires. I think
>>>>>>>>> I'll just drive my 04 Hemi a while longer. It has done very well
and the overhead on it is miniscule.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks to everyone for their comments and information.
>>>>>>>>> Gil
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