[AT] Turning Balers and Haybines

Tue Jul 19 11:21:19 PDT 2016

Charlie, you described that way better than I ever could have.  Thank you!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "charlie hill" <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Turning Balers and Haybines

> Alan,  visualize a u-joint yoke attached to your PTO shaft.  If
> a marking device was attached on the yoke as the PTO shaft
> turns the marker would scribe out a circle but the other yoke
> attached by the U-joint cross is attached to a shaft that is
> often running at an angle to the PTO shaft (in fact it needs to
> be at a slight angle always).  Since that second yoke of the set up
> is running at an angle a marker attached to it would actually be
> scribing an ellipse as seen from the plane view of the PTO shaft.
> For that to happen the driven yoke (one attached by the cross to the
> yoke on the PTO shaft) has to be speeding up and slowing down as it
> turns in terms of its angular velocity.  That is because in addition to
> spinning on the plane of the PTO shaft it is traveling backwards and
> forwards
> as it spins.
>
> If the U-joint at the other end of the PTO shaft (on the implement not the
> shaft in the tractor)
> was lined up in the same plane as the joint on the tractors PTO shaft it
> would necessarily bind
> as it turns or the implement PTO shaft would have to flex or a combination
> of the two.  That is
> where the vibration comes from.
>
> I hope I explained that correctly.  I understand it after pondering on it
> for a long time but it's not
> as easy to put into words.  Stated more simply.  If the drive end yoke of
> the first U-joint is installed
> vertical to the ground, the drive end yoke of the next joint needs to be
> horizontal to the ground and
> so forth.  Crawl under your truck and you'll see that the u-joints are 90
> degrees out of phase on the
> opposite ends of the shaft.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Alan Nadeau
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 7:58 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Turning Balers and Haybines
>
> On the equipment I used to be around on the grandparents farm I remember
> that, this was on JD 14T balers, the pivot point where the tractor drawbar
> coupled to the equipment tongue was supposed to be set, as close as 
> possible
> to being centered between the u-joint on the tractor end and the first
> u-joint on the implement tongue.  The idea behind that was to equalize the
> angles that both joints made when turning.
>
> There is something that I don't begin to understand which happens when
> joints on opposite ends of a driveshaft aren't angled equally.  The forces
> at work generate an imbalance which cause the whole shaft to shake, or 
> maybe
> oscillate from end to end.  It has something to do with the yokes, or 
> maybe
> it's the cross, having to accelerate/decelerate some miniscule amount as 
> the
> joint flexes.
>
> And no, I did not make that up.
>
> Al Nadeau
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cecil Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Turning Balers and Haybines
>
>
>>I just cut my corners wide, and make a run from the middle to the corner
>> and back to cut out my turnrows.  Sorta like disking.  Then when I bale
>> I bale these windrows first then I have an easy turn for the baler.  It
>> saves a lot of u joints...   I do this even with constant velocity
>> joints.  You can do a lot of wide turning for the price of rebuilding a
>> CV joint.
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/18/2016 3:02 PM, Ralph Goff wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2016 12:37 PM, Spencer Yost wrote:
>>>> As you folks may remember, I bought a NH 467 haybine at the start of 
>>>> the
>>>> season last year and a hay baler at the start of this season.   I was
>>>> always taught you can turn haybines as hard right as you need.  My NH
>>>> 467 manual even confirms this.   I also was taught balers with the two
>>>> piece drive shafts can be turned “to follow a windrow to 2:30 to the
>>>> right and 11:00 to the left”.   I have no idea where these old guys 
>>>> that
>>>> taught me came up with this, but that was what I was taught.
>>>>
>>>> However, the drive lines in both pieces of equipment makes a heck of a
>>>> racket when I do this.   So like the proverbial patient who says “it
>>>> hurts when I do this”, I’ve taken the doctors advise and just stopped
>>>> turning hard to the right and do a lot of picking-up the head and/or
>>>> wide-looping the turns.  I only have 5 acres so the extra time spent on
>>>> turns is not a huge issue but still a pain in the butt.   The baler in
>>>> particular seems very sensitive to any turning under power.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone experienced this?  Is the racket normal for New Holland 
>>>> gear?
>>>> Am I all washed up and dreaming and I shouldn’t be turning at all?   On
>>>> the haybine in particular I am pretty sure I should be able to hit the
>>>> right brake and attack a square corner.
>>>>
>>>> PS:   It sounds like possibly the driveshaft supports are making the
>>>> noise and not the driveshaft.
>>>> PSS:  The International gear I used to own and run never had this
>>>> problem.
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>>>>
>>> My 479 haybine seems to turn sharp with no complaints either way. Not
>>> sure where I read it but I adjust my drawbar to the furthest forward
>>> position on the 2090 Case. There are only two positions. Mine is the
>>> three joint driveline on the haybine. Maybe I read it in the manual.
>>> I run the 847 NH round baler with the shorter hitch adjustment too, same
>>> as the haybine. Might be something you could look into
>>> to see if you can adjust your drawbar length.
>>>
>>> Ralph in Sask.
>>>
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>>
>>
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