[AT] Turning Balers and Haybines

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Tue Jul 19 04:00:26 PDT 2016


Alan,  visualize a u-joint yoke attached to your PTO shaft.  If
a marking device was attached on the yoke as the PTO shaft
turns the marker would scribe out a circle but the other yoke
attached by the U-joint cross is attached to a shaft that is
often running at an angle to the PTO shaft (in fact it needs to
be at a slight angle always).  Since that second yoke of the set up
is running at an angle a marker attached to it would actually be
scribing an ellipse as seen from the plane view of the PTO shaft.
For that to happen the driven yoke (one attached by the cross to the
yoke on the PTO shaft) has to be speeding up and slowing down as it
turns in terms of its angular velocity.  That is because in addition to
spinning on the plane of the PTO shaft it is traveling backwards and 
forwards
as it spins.

If the U-joint at the other end of the PTO shaft (on the implement not the 
shaft in the tractor)
was lined up in the same plane as the joint on the tractors PTO shaft it 
would necessarily bind
as it turns or the implement PTO shaft would have to flex or a combination 
of the two.  That is
where the vibration comes from.

I hope I explained that correctly.  I understand it after pondering on it 
for a long time but it's not
as easy to put into words.  Stated more simply.  If the drive end yoke of 
the first U-joint is installed
vertical to the ground, the drive end yoke of the next joint needs to be 
horizontal to the ground and
so forth.  Crawl under your truck and you'll see that the u-joints are 90 
degrees out of phase on the
opposite ends of the shaft.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Nadeau
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 7:58 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Turning Balers and Haybines

On the equipment I used to be around on the grandparents farm I remember
that, this was on JD 14T balers, the pivot point where the tractor drawbar
coupled to the equipment tongue was supposed to be set, as close as possible
to being centered between the u-joint on the tractor end and the first
u-joint on the implement tongue.  The idea behind that was to equalize the
angles that both joints made when turning.

There is something that I don't begin to understand which happens when
joints on opposite ends of a driveshaft aren't angled equally.  The forces
at work generate an imbalance which cause the whole shaft to shake, or maybe
oscillate from end to end.  It has something to do with the yokes, or maybe
it's the cross, having to accelerate/decelerate some miniscule amount as the
joint flexes.

And no, I did not make that up.

Al Nadeau

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cecil Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [AT] Turning Balers and Haybines


>I just cut my corners wide, and make a run from the middle to the corner
> and back to cut out my turnrows.  Sorta like disking.  Then when I bale
> I bale these windrows first then I have an easy turn for the baler.  It
> saves a lot of u joints...   I do this even with constant velocity
> joints.  You can do a lot of wide turning for the price of rebuilding a
> CV joint.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
>
> On 7/18/2016 3:02 PM, Ralph Goff wrote:
>> On 7/18/2016 12:37 PM, Spencer Yost wrote:
>>> As you folks may remember, I bought a NH 467 haybine at the start of the
>>> season last year and a hay baler at the start of this season.   I was
>>> always taught you can turn haybines as hard right as you need.  My NH
>>> 467 manual even confirms this.   I also was taught balers with the two
>>> piece drive shafts can be turned “to follow a windrow to 2:30 to the
>>> right and 11:00 to the left”.   I have no idea where these old guys that
>>> taught me came up with this, but that was what I was taught.
>>>
>>> However, the drive lines in both pieces of equipment makes a heck of a
>>> racket when I do this.   So like the proverbial patient who says “it
>>> hurts when I do this”, I’ve taken the doctors advise and just stopped
>>> turning hard to the right and do a lot of picking-up the head and/or
>>> wide-looping the turns.  I only have 5 acres so the extra time spent on
>>> turns is not a huge issue but still a pain in the butt.   The baler in
>>> particular seems very sensitive to any turning under power.
>>>
>>> Has anyone experienced this?  Is the racket normal for New Holland gear?
>>> Am I all washed up and dreaming and I shouldn’t be turning at all?   On
>>> the haybine in particular I am pretty sure I should be able to hit the
>>> right brake and attack a square corner.
>>>
>>> PS:   It sounds like possibly the driveshaft supports are making the
>>> noise and not the driveshaft.
>>> PSS:  The International gear I used to own and run never had this
>>> problem.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> My 479 haybine seems to turn sharp with no complaints either way. Not
>> sure where I read it but I adjust my drawbar to the furthest forward
>> position on the 2090 Case. There are only two positions. Mine is the
>> three joint driveline on the haybine. Maybe I read it in the manual.
>> I run the 847 NH round baler with the shorter hitch adjustment too, same
>> as the haybine. Might be something you could look into
>> to see if you can adjust your drawbar length.
>>
>> Ralph in Sask.
>>
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>
>
>
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