[AT] OT Right of way, again

Fri Aug 28 05:04:49 PDT 2015

Hello, 
I have made some headway in my attempts to get a right away. Not sure if I'm better off. 

Found one of the members of the deed, talked to him. He thought we had a right of way, so he will probably be on board. But, turns out he is the son of the actual man on the deed. Either way, his family will probably be ok. 

Talked to the other man on the deed and he was not as agreeable. I told him I was calling him first because I did not want to have a lawyer contact him first. He was not warm on a permanent right of way, wanted to leave things as they were, temporary seemed ok for him and our logging operation. He did appreciate my calling him. 

Called my forester and he urged me to go for the permanent right of way. He said as of late he was having some horrible issues in the area concerning right of ways. He said if one is agreeable an the other is on the fence, try to call him back and meet with him in person. I appreciated the altruistic advice. 

Had my sister call him back, he intimated that he was paying all of the taxes on the property and he was not happy about that. The other deed holder had not been paying... He did not really know much about the deed. My sister said she would go to the county and try to find out all of the deed information and get back to him. He liked that. 

Now what? My goal is a for a permanent right of way. I may just have to settle for a temporary but somewhere down the road this will become an issue. These deed holders are older and who knows what a mess this will be when they pass on? Do I go to a lawyer now? 

I'm feeling that I will just get the temporary for three years and then go full on with the permanent with some of the logging proceeds. 

Regards, 

Will 

----- Original Message -----

From: "David Rotigel" <rotigel at me.com> 
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 12:23:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AT] OT Right of way, again 

I wonder if this is still the law, or simply an "old wife tail". I do know the laws governing the creation and use of private roads here in PA is apparently very muddy currently. 
        Dave 

On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Alan <rustaholic777 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

> It works the same here in Michigan.I know a subdivision where the oldest house there owns not only the road but a strip 80 feet wide and 250 feet long across the road to keep the great view open.At least one time every ten years they park across the paved road and block all access for a full 24 hours. They let everyone know and all of them on the road park down a ways and walk to their cars that day.The rest of the time the county plows and maintains the road even. 
> Alan in Michigan 
>      From: Dave Rotigel <rotigel at me.com> 
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2015 5:31 PM 
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Right of way, again 
> 
> I am aware of that "10 year" rule here in PA. A good friend allowed a utility company to use a private road that ran on his land. Once each decade (on the years ending with "0") Dick would block the road and put up a sign.(He would just put a rope across the road and hang the sign on the rope.) He would always block the road on a Sunday and call the utility company first to warn them that the road would be closed. I have NO IDEA what the law may be in other states (or how someone could claim that they have used the road every day for 10 years and it had never been blocked). 
>     Dave 
> PS, My wife just sold a land locked parcel of 10a to the next door neighbor who had a public road in front of his property. Problem solved! 
> 
> On Apr 1, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Richard Fink Sr wrote: 
> 
>> Dave i have also had some done here 8 years ago. On an other note here 
>> in PA if you have used a drive for 10 years and not been stopped for any 
>> 24 hour time. The owner has relinquish right of way to you. Or you can 
>> file for emanate domain but it takes court time. 
>> R Fink 
>> PA 
>> 
>> On 3/31/2015 7:27 PM, David Rotigel wrote: 
>>> Hi Will, 
>>>     I’ve seen the damage that a logging road can do to a property. Are you willing to put the property back in the condition it was before the road was used for logging? When is the last time you used the road that you intend to use for logging? Many lawyers rill tell you anything you want to hear for their hourly fee. If the lawyer you are using simply tells you that you can “take it to court” she is correct. Winning the case is another thing! Also ask her what precedent she is using to tell you that you have a “good case”! Why were you told 40 years ago to not use the road? Was it the same owner at that time? 
>>>     I also think that if you came to me and in any way indicated that you were going to “take it to court” I would tell you “Fine, see you there. Now get the hell off my property!” My guess is that the guy could tie it up in court for years. 
>>>     Dave 
>>> PS, Having said all that I wish you good luck! And as has been said by several—BE NICE! 
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 5:41 PM, David Bruce <davidbruce at yadtel.net> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with Spencer you usually get further by being nice. In NC the 
>>>> law is any landlocked property must be provided an easement but that 
>>>> does require legal action if the other party is not accommodating (other 
>>>> states may and probably will vary). I would first have the conversation, 
>>>> offer some compensation if needed to get properly prepared paperwork 
>>>> signed. If that does not work time for court costs depending on the 
>>>> state laws. 
>>>> 
>>>> David 
>>>> NW NC 
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/31/2015 2:47 PM, Spencer Yost wrote: 
>>>>> Hey Will, 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your lawyer will know all about this, but there's a thing called prescriptive easement. If you were truly landlocked, and especially if there's a long history of using the existing right-a-way, typically the court will grant you an easement. That is probably the route he/she is taking.  There are some fairly specific timetables and conditions that have to be met though. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> But, just remember to put yourself in his shoes and remember you are asking for something you probably would not even grant yourself.  Try to make an offer first.  In these circumstances I like to  remember my grandmothers adage:  Sugar is almost always a better ingredient than vinegar when trying to put something together. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck! 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Spencer 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 13:01, Will Powell <william.neff.powell at comcast.net> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've brought this up before, I'm moving forward and would like some guidance. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To review we have Land locked property in upstate NY. We've been using road through neighbors property for over 30 years.  Had a forester come in last year and we are moving toward a harvest. Forester wants a legal right of way. For about 30 years we previously used another road that went through a creek and was sometimes impassable, that road has long since grown over. The present road runs right through the center of neighbors property, it's about 80 acres? The  sides of his property are swamp and a hill, so re-routing the road on his property line would not be good. There used to be a camp on the property but that burned down about 40 years ago, when the camp was there we were asked not to use road. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Talked to a lawyer and she said talk to the current owner and see if they will give us a right of way. If that does not work we have a good case to get one legally because 1) we have been using the road and 2) We need access to the property... 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What do I say when I call the owner? Should I offer him money? $350 to motivate him?  I don't want to telegraph the punch and say if you don't we'll see you in court. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Will 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
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