[AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor

Cecil R Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Tue Aug 11 20:03:39 PDT 2015 

Charlie:
I wondered about the timing belt. This compressor will sit for a month 
or 3 then get used for many times as much as an hour at a time... It is 
used to blow off hay balers, hay swathers, mowers, real dirty work. Have 
not sandblasted in many years... I questioned a Ford friend of mine 
about maybe the timing belt stuck to the toothed pulley while it sat and 
when I started it,  it came off and would be out of time.. I assume the 
easiest way would be to check the timing at the distributor. Trying to 
get to the timing pulleys to view them is at least a 4 hour job....  I 
would have to remove the radiator, the top  section of the enclosure, 
and then the timing cover.   I used to do this in about 2 hours, now, it 
is a day or two job...

Cecil in OKla




On 8/11/2015 9:48 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> Cecil,  I wouldn't doubt that Sullair and Leroi are the same.
> It could well be.  As I think about it, my preference for Leroi probably
> has more to do with what was available to us from a local dealer that
> we trusted and dealer support than anything else.   Back in the late
> 70's to early 80's we had an Atlas Copco compressor with an air cooled
> Deutz diesel.  it was a real workhorse but over the years we had to have
> the air end (screw compressor) rebuilt a couple of times.   185 CFM machines
> were the smallest compressors we ever used.  Most were 365 or 375 CFM with
> some 750's and occasionally an 1100 or so.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecil R Bearden
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 8:29 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor
>
> This is a 1985 model.  I found the operators manual and parts list, all
> that is available.  I also got a download from Sullair factory, they are
> as helpful as can be for a 30 yr old machine...    The Sullair dealer
> here in OKC seemed to have a tech who new about these, but his advice
> did not help....Since this is an early model, it does start under load,
> until it gets to 40psi, then the minimum pressure valve is supposed to
> take over and bring it up to operating pressure.  I really do not see
> how that works because I had it apart, and it is more like a back
> pressure ( check) valve in the output line... This one does not have a
> cylinder on the throttle, it has a diaphram that is connected to the
> governor and to the butterfly on the intake.     The later models have a
> start unloader valve.   I have all new electrical parts and it really
> does not start as well as it did...
>
>    Funny thing, I bought a  185 Leroi compressor from the OK DOT. It was
> listed as diesel, I bought it cheap and never looked at it. We got it
> home and when I looked under the cover, it was gasoline...............
> Too Late.      I looked at it a today as I was getting desperate, and it
> is the same compressor as the one I have, but it is a little later as it
> has the unloader valve on it....  Same engine and looks like the same
> compressor..  Uses same filters too...
>
> I took the carb off the Sullair and could not find anything really wrong
> with it.  It was fairly clean, but the inside was sooted up.  The
> Crankcase vent from the valve cover goes in just above the carb air
> horn.  The engine may be in worse condition than I thought...   I have a
> carb kit ordered for it.
>
> The leroi has a key start and I don't have a key.  It is a universal
> switch, but to get  in  to the back side of the dash panel to replace
> the switch takes a contortionist with 4 ft arms. I found a few keys to
> those switches as I bought a lot of old DOT equip when I got this
> one...   I got the flat fixed and moved it to the shade tree, put in a
> new battery and it cranked!!!   The old battery had a date of April 04
> on it, so it has been sitting for a while....
>
> Got some Dr. appts tomorrow, so maybe by tomorrow afternoon I can see
> if something will run.....   This has been the year for breakdowns...
>
>
> On 8/11/2015 5:37 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>> Following along with what Bo said about Never Ever putting a body
>> part on a screw compressor intake and on my similar comments earlier.
>>
>> The screw compressors are basically the same device as the roots blowers
>> that are on the old 2 stroke Detroit Diesels and on a lot of race cars.  I
>> once
>> heard about a mechanic that leaned across a running detroit with part of
>> the
>> air intake disassembled.  His belly got too close, the blower sucked his
>> belly
>> against it and then in it and eviscerated him, killing him on the spot.
>>
>> A centrifugal blower is a different story.  You can "unload" it by
>> partially
>> or
>> fully blocking the air intake.  I have a huge centrifugal blower powered
>> by
>> a
>> 5 hp 3 phase motor that is hooked to a dust collector cabinet (industrial
>> size).
>> It has a butterfly on the outlet of the blower and I have to partially
>> shut
>> it, unloading
>> the blower, in order for the 5 hp motor to start and get up to speed but
>> that
>> only applies to centrifugal blowers.  Roots blowers or screw compressors
>> are
>> a totally
>> different animal and they WILL HURT OR KILL YOU.
>>
>> Bo, I'm not at all familiar with that Mazda powered Sullair but I've been
>> around a lot of
>> Sullair compressors and they do a fine job!  I prefer LeRoi compressors
>> but
>> will take a
>> Sulair with no hesitation.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bo Hinch
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:19 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor
>>
>> Cecil , those were some very nice little compressors and from my past
>> experience with them , I would first remove the carburetor , look in the
>> barrel ( engine side ) right next to the butterfly and you should see at
>> least three very tiny little holes .Pull a bristle out of a wire brush and
>> use it to ream / clean out holes and with carburator apart , blow all air
>> passages from inside out with air pressure or carburetor cleaner .
>> After reassembling carb. , I would remove air intake cover. I think you
>> will find it stuck open ( should be closed with little to no air
>> pressure )
>> and determine why it is stuck open such as a blown o`ring hanging up or
>> whatever . You also have a regulator valve that operates the air intake .
>> Just follow the small line going into the air intake manifold . I think it
>> also has a diaphram in it that does go bad . Also I disagree with quote
>> from your previous email
>> ((( The engine must start under load until the
>> compressor reaches 40psi, then some regulation begins.)))
>> Last but not least , NEVER , NEVER put any part of a human body over the
>> compressor air intake .If I can get some junk moved around , I think I
>> still have a manual on this unit which would be very helpful to you .
>> Bo Hinch in s/w louisiana
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The cold natured problem seems to be typical of these.   The factorey
>>> says I should have an idle warm up valve, there never was one .....
>>>
>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2015 7:18 AM, Doug Tallman wrote:
>>>> Cecil, It sounds like carburetion issues or a big vacuum leak. I'd think
>>>> you would hear the hiss of a leak that big. Maybe try spraying a little
>>>> carb cleaner around the manifold and see if it picks up. Doug T
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/11/2015 7:09 AM, Cecil R Bearden wrote:
>>>>> Sullair 185 w/ ford/Mazda 4cyl gas engine.  Compressor always has been
>>>>> cold natured.  Had to be completely warmed up before choke could be
>>>>> shut
>>>>> off.  Open air line valve and engine would die without choke on at
>>>>> least
>>>>> half way.  Working fine a month ago.   Now, Engine tries to start and
>>>>> gets up to idle speed but compressor is loading engine and it cannot
>>>>> get
>>>>> up to operating speed.  If compressor could be disconnected from
>>>>> engine,
>>>>> it would get up to operating speed. Have replaced fuel pump, and plug
>>>>> wires.  Spark plug had some surface carbon but not really gunked up.
>>>>> took air intake elbow off of compressor and tried to cut off air intake
>>>>> to allow engine to start, but it nearly sucked my hand into the pipe.
>>>>> In the past distributor,ignition control box, and coil have been
>>>>> replaced.  Have worked on engines gas, propane and diesel for 50 years
>>>>> and this one has me beat......  This is the reason I like Diesel!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> I use this for sandblasting and blowing off the round baler.  Right
>>>>> now,
>>>>> the baler has some hay lodged between the belts and the rollers on the
>>>>> back side and it has the baler bound up.  The only way to get this out
>>>>> is to use a lot of high pressure air and cut the hay out with the air.
>>>>> Or, cut the belts pull them out with the loader and re-splice.  I did
>>>>> not blow off the baler last time i used it, it was trying to rain after
>>>>> I put the new bearing in that was causing the fires.  The hay builds up
>>>>> in the back above the top of the bale chamber, and causes the belts to
>>>>> stick.  Really dry hay is the worst problem...
>>>>>
>>>>>
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