[AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Tue Aug 11 19:48:28 PDT 2015 

Cecil,  I wouldn't doubt that Sullair and Leroi are the same.
It could well be.  As I think about it, my preference for Leroi probably
has more to do with what was available to us from a local dealer that
we trusted and dealer support than anything else.   Back in the late
70's to early 80's we had an Atlas Copco compressor with an air cooled
Deutz diesel.  it was a real workhorse but over the years we had to have
the air end (screw compressor) rebuilt a couple of times.   185 CFM machines
were the smallest compressors we ever used.  Most were 365 or 375 CFM with
some 750's and occasionally an 1100 or so.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cecil R Bearden
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 8:29 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor

This is a 1985 model.  I found the operators manual and parts list, all
that is available.  I also got a download from Sullair factory, they are
as helpful as can be for a 30 yr old machine...    The Sullair dealer
here in OKC seemed to have a tech who new about these, but his advice
did not help....Since this is an early model, it does start under load,
until it gets to 40psi, then the minimum pressure valve is supposed to
take over and bring it up to operating pressure.  I really do not see
how that works because I had it apart, and it is more like a back
pressure ( check) valve in the output line... This one does not have a
cylinder on the throttle, it has a diaphram that is connected to the
governor and to the butterfly on the intake.     The later models have a
start unloader valve.   I have all new electrical parts and it really
does not start as well as it did...

  Funny thing, I bought a  185 Leroi compressor from the OK DOT. It was
listed as diesel, I bought it cheap and never looked at it. We got it
home and when I looked under the cover, it was gasoline...............
Too Late.      I looked at it a today as I was getting desperate, and it
is the same compressor as the one I have, but it is a little later as it
has the unloader valve on it....  Same engine and looks like the same
compressor..  Uses same filters too...

I took the carb off the Sullair and could not find anything really wrong
with it.  It was fairly clean, but the inside was sooted up.  The
Crankcase vent from the valve cover goes in just above the carb air
horn.  The engine may be in worse condition than I thought...   I have a
carb kit ordered for it.

The leroi has a key start and I don't have a key.  It is a universal
switch, but to get  in  to the back side of the dash panel to replace
the switch takes a contortionist with 4 ft arms. I found a few keys to
those switches as I bought a lot of old DOT equip when I got this
one...   I got the flat fixed and moved it to the shade tree, put in a
new battery and it cranked!!!   The old battery had a date of April 04
on it, so it has been sitting for a while....

Got some Dr. appts tomorrow, so maybe by tomorrow afternoon I can see
if something will run.....   This has been the year for breakdowns...


On 8/11/2015 5:37 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> Following along with what Bo said about Never Ever putting a body
> part on a screw compressor intake and on my similar comments earlier.
>
> The screw compressors are basically the same device as the roots blowers
> that are on the old 2 stroke Detroit Diesels and on a lot of race cars.  I
> once
> heard about a mechanic that leaned across a running detroit with part of 
> the
> air intake disassembled.  His belly got too close, the blower sucked his
> belly
> against it and then in it and eviscerated him, killing him on the spot.
>
> A centrifugal blower is a different story.  You can "unload" it by 
> partially
> or
> fully blocking the air intake.  I have a huge centrifugal blower powered 
> by
> a
> 5 hp 3 phase motor that is hooked to a dust collector cabinet (industrial
> size).
> It has a butterfly on the outlet of the blower and I have to partially 
> shut
> it, unloading
> the blower, in order for the 5 hp motor to start and get up to speed but
> that
> only applies to centrifugal blowers.  Roots blowers or screw compressors 
> are
> a totally
> different animal and they WILL HURT OR KILL YOU.
>
> Bo, I'm not at all familiar with that Mazda powered Sullair but I've been
> around a lot of
> Sullair compressors and they do a fine job!  I prefer LeRoi compressors 
> but
> will take a
> Sulair with no hesitation.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bo Hinch
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:19 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help troubleshooting engine/compressor
>
> Cecil , those were some very nice little compressors and from my past
> experience with them , I would first remove the carburetor , look in the
> barrel ( engine side ) right next to the butterfly and you should see at
> least three very tiny little holes .Pull a bristle out of a wire brush and
> use it to ream / clean out holes and with carburator apart , blow all air
> passages from inside out with air pressure or carburetor cleaner .
> After reassembling carb. , I would remove air intake cover. I think you
> will find it stuck open ( should be closed with little to no air 
> pressure )
> and determine why it is stuck open such as a blown o`ring hanging up or
> whatever . You also have a regulator valve that operates the air intake .
> Just follow the small line going into the air intake manifold . I think it
> also has a diaphram in it that does go bad . Also I disagree with quote
> from your previous email
> ((( The engine must start under load until the
> compressor reaches 40psi, then some regulation begins.)))
> Last but not least , NEVER , NEVER put any part of a human body over the
> compressor air intake .If I can get some junk moved around , I think I
> still have a manual on this unit which would be very helpful to you .
> Bo Hinch in s/w louisiana
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> wrote:
>
>> The cold natured problem seems to be typical of these.   The factorey
>> says I should have an idle warm up valve, there never was one .....
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2015 7:18 AM, Doug Tallman wrote:
>>> Cecil, It sounds like carburetion issues or a big vacuum leak. I'd think
>>> you would hear the hiss of a leak that big. Maybe try spraying a little
>>> carb cleaner around the manifold and see if it picks up. Doug T
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2015 7:09 AM, Cecil R Bearden wrote:
>>>> Sullair 185 w/ ford/Mazda 4cyl gas engine.  Compressor always has been
>>>> cold natured.  Had to be completely warmed up before choke could be
>>>> shut
>>>> off.  Open air line valve and engine would die without choke on at
>>>> least
>>>> half way.  Working fine a month ago.   Now, Engine tries to start and
>>>> gets up to idle speed but compressor is loading engine and it cannot
>>>> get
>>>> up to operating speed.  If compressor could be disconnected from
>>>> engine,
>>>> it would get up to operating speed. Have replaced fuel pump, and plug
>>>> wires.  Spark plug had some surface carbon but not really gunked up.
>>>> took air intake elbow off of compressor and tried to cut off air intake
>>>> to allow engine to start, but it nearly sucked my hand into the pipe.
>>>> In the past distributor,ignition control box, and coil have been
>>>> replaced.  Have worked on engines gas, propane and diesel for 50 years
>>>> and this one has me beat......  This is the reason I like Diesel!!!
>>>>
>>>> I use this for sandblasting and blowing off the round baler.  Right
>>>> now,
>>>> the baler has some hay lodged between the belts and the rollers on the
>>>> back side and it has the baler bound up.  The only way to get this out
>>>> is to use a lot of high pressure air and cut the hay out with the air.
>>>> Or, cut the belts pull them out with the loader and re-splice.  I did
>>>> not blow off the baler last time i used it, it was trying to rain after
>>>> I put the new bearing in that was causing the fires.  The hay builds up
>>>> in the back above the top of the bale chamber, and causes the belts to
>>>> stick.  Really dry hay is the worst problem...
>>>>
>>>>
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