[AT] , now JD

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Tue Jul 8 07:17:18 PDT 2014


Agreed Steve.  Actually I had no memory at all of a 444 that was just a
random 4xx number I picked.  I should have said "441 or something like that"
because 441 is what I remember.  I was just allowing for the fact that my 
memory
is not perfect.

I also read a few minutes ago on another site that there was a 750 that wore 
both
the Triumph and BSA nameplates.  I forgot to save the link to the site but 
it's out there.
I'm guessing that there must have been a small number of those BSA bikes 
badged as
Triumphs so that Triumph dealers would have a bike in that size and style 
range to sell.
If that is the case it's a rare piece.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:53 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD

I understand, Charlie.  I am a lifelong motorcycle enthusiast but it's
always been Japanese and German bikes for me.  My knowledge of the British
industry is peripheral at best.  It's simply a fascinating topic for me, in
general terms.  I know you are clear on the 441 (or 444) but just for the
sake of demonstrating that BSA and Triumph were heavily intertwined, check
out this parts manual from a 1969 Triumph Trophy.  Yes, it's only a 250cc
and does not fit your 441 memory.  That's not my point.  The point is, open
up the link and scroll a couple pages to the image of the bike.  Doesn't
that engine look suspiciously like the BSA 441?  Just some evidence that
they were cross-branding.

http://www.bsaunitsingles.com/Archives/Spares/TRIUMPH%20SPC10%201969%20TR25W%20TROPHY%20250%20x.pdf

SO



On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 9:24 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
wrote:

> Steve,  as I alluded to in my reply to Herb, there is reason to believe 
> the
> bike was
> marketed with both name plates.    There was apparently a tie between the
> two
> companies.  This site
> http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/history-triumph-motorcycle.html
> indicates that BSA owned Triumph.  Read the history.  I found the 
> reference
> starting about 1968.
> I didn't read all of it.  Also, here:
> http://ianchadwick.com/motorcycles/triumph/time04.html
>
> Understand that I know very little about motorcycles and nothing about BSA
> or Triumph motorcycles.
> I just have one very clear memory of standing at a specific spot that I
> could take you to today, in 1968 or 69
> and talking to a kid that I did not know.  There were 2 or 3 others
> standing
> there looking at his new motorcycle.
> I clearly remember it being a Triumph 44x something.  As in my first post 
> I
> said 441 or maybe 444.  I knew it wasn't 442
> because that is an Olds Car.  There is absolutely no reason for me to
> remember it as a Triumph when it was a BSA.
> I have to believe that at some point that bike was marketed under both the
> Triumph and BSA names.
> The only other British bikes I ever knew anything about were
> Nortons and that was just because the Honda dealer where my cousin bought
> his bike also sold Norton.   To my knowledge
> I've never actually seen a bike with a BSA nameplate on it.  My memory is
> not infallible by any means and if I was familiar
> with both brands I would easily admit that I could have them mixed up but
> it's hard to confuse something you never knew
> existed.  That would be akin to my memory of the time I cured cancer or 
> got
> the Nobel prize for world peace or invented the
> Internet.  Hopefully I'm not that delusional.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Offilrr
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:01 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
>
> I did, Charlie, but my gut feel is that it is not particularly factual or
> reliable.
>
> SO
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2014, at 5:42 PM, "charlie hill" <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Steve did you read the information below the picture.
> > If not scroll down the page.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Offiler
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 3:01 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Charlie:
> >
> > In that link you provided, I can't say *exactly* what model that is, but
> > the engine is pretty unmistakably a BSA.  Compare it to this one:
> >
> > http://www.propsonwheels.com/images/motorcycles/BSA%20441%20victor.jpg
> >
> > And the badge on the tank.  Resolution isn't very good, but if I squint,
> I
> > can make out the features of this:
> >
> > http://www.britishclassicmotorcycles.com/images/BSA%20logo.jpg
> >
> > SO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Herb, what is the one in the link I sent you?  BSA or Triumph?
> >> They call it a Triumph BSA.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Herb Metz
> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 1:59 PM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >>
> >> Charlie, back then they were very similar in appearance; however very
> >> much
> >> competitors.  BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) mfged a large variety of
> >> singles
> >> and twins; Triumph was mostly twins with one small single and one large
> 3
> >> cylinder. Please not this info is dated because I now longer paid
> >> attention
> >> to bikes when I went into service and after.  Herb
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: charlie hill
> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 12:43 PM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >>
> >> Maybe it was a BSA but I would have sworn it was a Triumph.
> >>
> >> Here you go.  Maybe this is what it was.
> >> http://www.akbikes.com/view_cycle_details.php?RID=821
> >> BSA badges as Triumph?
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Stephen Offiler
> >> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:29 AM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >>
> >> BSA had a popular thumper called the 441.  Not that it matters whether
> >> Triumph or BSA.  I like the image of dirt kicking w/ each hit!
> >>
> >> SO
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:11 AM, charlie hill
> >> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Herb a kid that lived in the same dorm with me in college had
> >>> a Triumph with a big single cyl. engine.  I want to say it was a
> >>> 441 or 444 or something like that.  He would put that thing in
> >>> low gear and let it idle on dirt or gravel and every time the engine
> >>> hit the rear wheel would kick dirt.
> >>>
> >>> Charlie
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Herb Metz
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:14 AM
> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >>>
> >>> Decades ago I had a loaner motorcycle while my T-100 English Triumph
> was
> >>> disabled. The loaner was a 500cc single cylinder BSA (referred to as a
> >>> thumper), with a compression release controlled by a small lever on
> >>> handlebar (not sure whether on left or right side). Looking back I was
> >>> wondering why two cylinder JD's did not have similar; and now we know
> >> that
> >>> they did on some special applications.  Herb
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Brian VanDragt
> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 9:53 PM
> >>> To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> >>>
> >>> The petcock operating levers were for use with a mounted picker.  You
> >>> couldn't get to them easily with the picker on.
> >>> Brian
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dean VP
> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 7:36 PM
> >>> To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> >>>
> >>> Ron,
> >>>
> >>> I've seen somewhere in my travels even maybe a memory from the 50's
> >>> where
> >>> there were levers and rods that were attached to the side of the dash
> so
> >>> the
> >>> operator could open and close the petcocks from the driver's seat.  I
> >>> don't
> >>> recall seeing something like that recently.  Maybe it was a home brew!
> >>>
> >>> Dean VP
> >>> Snohomish, WA
> >>>
> >>> They say necessity is the mother of invention.
> >>> Don't know who the father is, probably remorse.
> >>> Red Green
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Ron Cook
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 11:51 PM
> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> >>>
> >>> Yep.  I noticed those loose bolts on the interconnect cable ends right
> >>> off.
> >>> The cables are in good condition.  Near new and are in series with
> >>> positive
> >>> ground.  However, Dean had brought the tractor home, so they were
> >>> obviously
> >>> making connection at the time.  Not a big deal at all.
> >>> Normal, as a matter of fact.  Heck, most have just installed a 12V
> >> battery
> >>> and stopped using the two sixes.  I have. That keeps most my
> >>> batteries the same.   Just keep the correct police out from under the
> >>> seat cushion.  I even got fed up with the 6V system on my '46 A and
> >>> converted it to 12V about 20 years ago. Now I can start it without
> >> getting
> >>> off and opening the petcocks.:-)
> >>>
> >>> Ron Cook
> >>> Salix, IA
> >>>> On 7/5/2014 8:54 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> >>>> I'm reading and responding to these emails via cell phone so I'm
> >>>> doubly handicapped! -:)
> >>>>
> >>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>> From: Mike <meulenms at gmx.com>
> >>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>> Sent: Sun, Jul 6, 2014 01:19:17 GMT+00:00
> >>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> >>>>
> >>>> Look at the nuts on the clamp bolts Dean, they are not even close to
> >>> tight.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike M
> >>>>> On 7/5/2014 7:30 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> >>>>> You have much better eyes than I do if you can see the loose
> >>>>> connections between the two batteries.  However, these are 6V
> >>>>> batteries so they need
> >>>> to
> >>>>> be in Series to get the required 12V for the JD 620.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original message-----
> >>>>> From: vschwartz1 at comcast.net
> >>>>> To: Antique <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Sat, Jul 5, 2014 22:56:42 GMT+00:00
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ralph; Your reply made it to Central Missouri just fine although it
> >>>>> did
> >>>> come
> >>>>> in after Janice and John's comment. I guess everyone is looking at
> >>>>> the
> >>>> John
> >>>>> Deere 620 battery box and wondering who installed those batteries 
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> cables. After I looked the second time I could see the short cable
> >>>>> was not tight on either end as well as being on the wrong Posts for 
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> 12 Volt set up. At this point I am assuming that a 620 John Deere
> >>>>> should be 12 volt. I am thinking the battery cables were 
> >>>>> disconnected
> >>>>> for long term storage and the guy who put it up for sale made an
> >>>>> error
> >>> in
> >>> the connections.
> >>>>> Gil
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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