[AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...

Fri Nov 15 17:40:59 PST 2013

Ok guys I've heard about enough Bull Shit on this topic.
I answered as best I knew because no one else did.
I may be wrong but I tried to help.  All I get out of you
EXPERTS is criticism.  I've got a lot of real world experience
and so does Cecil.  He's an engineer and I spent quite a while
in engineering school and have worked in the field (civil and structural, 
not mechanical)
for most of my career.

If you fellows know how to solve the mans problem.  Tell him and politely 
tell us where
we are wrong but I don't want to hear your insults when you offer nothing 
but criticism
and no or very few answers.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tom
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 3:52 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...

To put it bluntly, this whole thread is built on some cowboy's
dopey notion of dismantling a gearbox.
That opinion is based not only on qualification but many years experience.
My resumé does also include the manufacture and heat-treatment of gears,
both spur & bevel.

The semantics of whether  re-case-hardening or re-through hardening
are totally incidental..

Tom

>________________________________
> From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Saturday, 16 November 2013 7:58 AM
>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
>
>
>Tom, I submit that re-case-hardening is a trickier proposition than
>re-heat-treating conventionally (thru-hardening).  We were talking about
>gears, so, case-hardening concerns apply.  You make excellent points
>regarding the need to know what kind of steel you're dealing with, not to
>mention your opinions on the notion of building a fire in a transmission
>case to free the gears from the shafts!
>
>SO
>
>
>On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Tom <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> You are right, steel can be re-heated treated. However there is a large
>> caveat.
>> you need to know exactly what the steel is. If you've got a spark
>> spectrometer handy
>> life becomes easier in that all you have to do is match the analysis to a
>> particular
>> spec of steel and then work to the recommendations for that steel. Of
>> course
>> steel can get burnt, in that case it's scrap.
>>
>>
>> That aside, the very idea of heating that way, strikes me of someone
>> rather bereft
>> of mechanical aptitude and knowledge/training.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>> ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >Sent: Saturday, 16 November 2013 1:19 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >
>> >
>> >Possibly Tom.  I really don't know for sure about that.  Just
>> >know what I've seen done and what I've done.  As for the
>> >effect on the temper of the steel and the metallurgy, I won't
>> >argue with you about that.  You may well be correct.
>> >However, they can be heat treated again.
>> >
>> >Charlie
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Tom
>> >Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:03 AM
>> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> >Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
>> >
>> >Only one problem, Charlie, the gear teeth will be the first to heat.
>> >So they will lose their temper before the hubs will be hot enough to
>> >free on the shafts.
>> >
>> >Tom
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>________________________________
>> >> From: charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>> >>To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>> >><at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >>Sent: Friday, 15 November 2013
>>  12:43 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Tom I don't think you have to get them that hot in terms of max temp.
>> >>You just have to get enough heat into the mass of metal to make the 
>> >>metal
>> >>expand and break the joint loose.  When you have a big mass of metal it
>> >>takes
>> >>a lot of BTU's.
>> >>
>> >>Charlie
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Tom
>> >>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:27 PM
>> >>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> >>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
>> >>
>> >>One would have to wonder how hard the gears & shafts were after that
>> >>experience!
>> >>
>> >>Tom
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>________________________________
>> >>> From: Mike <meulenms at gmx.com>
>> >>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >>>Sent: Friday, 15 November 2013 12:05 PM
>> >>>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Interesting that you would bring that up Charlie, I was watching 
>> >>>RFD-TV
>> >>>the other night and they were interviewing a guy
>>  that had restored Power
>> >>>Horse tractors.. Parts are apparently very hard to get for those
>> >>>tractors, you either need to make them or have a parts tractor. 
>> >>>Anyway,
>> >>>he said when he got it the transmission gears were seized up, so he
>> >>>filled the transmission with charcoal briquets and let it burn, same
>> >>>type of idea. Those are neat little tractors by the way, made to be
>> >>>controlled just like a horse using reins to control the tractor via 
>> >>>two
>> >>>levers.
>> >>>Mike M
>> >>>
>> >>>On 11/14/2013 7:22 AM, charlie hill wrote:
>> >>>> Dave if the part is such that you can do it without messing 
>> >>>> something
>> >>>> else
>> >>>> up
>> >>>> you might find you have better
>>  success, and cheaper, by just building a
>> >>>> big
>> >>>> fire and throwing the part in the bed of coals for a while.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Charlie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Dave Johnson
>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:31 AM
>> >>>> To: at at lists.antique-tractor..com
>> >>>> Subject: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind.....
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm pretty ok with cutting & brazing, but have never used a rosebud 
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> heat
>> >>>> something, and my experience today has me scratching my head.
>> >>>> The project at hand is freeing up a cast iron wheel hub, stuck on a
>> >>>> keyed
>> >>>> 1"
>> >>>> shaft. This is on an old Gilson / MW garden tractor transmission....
>> the
>> >>>> idea is to liberate a set of 4 of these hubs to make dual adapters 
>> >>>> for
>> >>>> use
>> >>>> on another tractor with a FEL.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have soaked it for quite some time and have a puller tensioned on
>> it,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> it's not moving.... so now it's time for a little heat.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I bought a new victor 8-MFA rosebud and lit it off as I would the
>> torch,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> when I try to get a blue flame, it flames out with a pop!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What's going on here? Do I not want a hot blue flame, or do I simply
>> >>>> need
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> feed a lot more of both gases to the torch? Or??  Any insight into
>> these
>> >>>> things would be appreciated!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     btw, I'm on digest, so it'll take a day for me to respond (:<((
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dave in Gilroy, CA
>> >>>> webguydave at yahoo.com
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>AT
>>  mailing list
>> >>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>AT mailing list
>> >>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AT mailing list
>> >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AT mailing
>>  list
>> >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>_______________________________________________
>AT mailing list
>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at 