[AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...

Fri Nov 15 12:52:24 PST 2013

To put it bluntly, this whole thread is built on some cowboy's 
dopey notion of dismantling a gearbox. 
That opinion is based not only on qualification but many years experience.
My resumé does also include the manufacture and heat-treatment of gears,
both spur & bevel.

The semantics of whether  re-case-hardening or re-through hardening
are totally incidental..

Tom

>________________________________
> From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com> 
>Sent: Saturday, 16 November 2013 7:58 AM
>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
> 
>
>Tom, I submit that re-case-hardening is a trickier proposition than
>re-heat-treating conventionally (thru-hardening).  We were talking about
>gears, so, case-hardening concerns apply.  You make excellent points
>regarding the need to know what kind of steel you're dealing with, not to
>mention your opinions on the notion of building a fire in a transmission
>case to free the gears from the shafts!
>
>SO
>
>
>On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:32 PM, Tom <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> You are right, steel can be re-heated treated. However there is a large
>> caveat.
>> you need to know exactly what the steel is. If you've got a spark
>> spectrometer handy
>> life becomes easier in that all you have to do is match the analysis to a
>> particular
>> spec of steel and then work to the recommendations for that steel. Of
>> course
>> steel can get burnt, in that case it's scrap.
>>
>>
>> That aside, the very idea of heating that way, strikes me of someone
>> rather bereft
>> of mechanical aptitude and knowledge/training.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> >________________________________
>> > From: charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >Sent: Saturday, 16 November 2013 1:19 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >
>> >
>> >Possibly Tom.  I really don't know for sure about that.  Just
>> >know what I've seen done and what I've done.  As for the
>> >effect on the temper of the steel and the metallurgy, I won't
>> >argue with you about that.  You may well be correct.
>> >However, they can be heat treated again.
>> >
>> >Charlie
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Tom
>> >Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:03 AM
>> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> >Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
>> >
>> >Only one problem, Charlie, the gear teeth will be the first to heat.
>> >So they will lose their temper before the hubs will be hot enough to
>> >free on the shafts.
>> >
>> >Tom
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>________________________________
>> >> From: charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>> >>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >>Sent: Friday, 15 November 2013
>>  12:43 PM
>> >>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Tom I don't think you have to get them that hot in terms of max temp.
>> >>You just have to get enough heat into the mass of metal to make the metal
>> >>expand and break the joint loose.  When you have a big mass of metal it
>> >>takes
>> >>a lot of BTU's.
>> >>
>> >>Charlie
>> >>
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: Tom
>> >>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:27 PM
>> >>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> >>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind...
>> >>
>> >>One would have to wonder how hard the gears & shafts were after that
>> >>experience!
>> >>
>> >>Tom
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>________________________________
>> >>> From: Mike <meulenms at gmx.com>
>> >>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >>>Sent: Friday, 15 November 2013 12:05 PM
>> >>>Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene  kind...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Interesting that you would bring that up Charlie, I was watching RFD-TV
>> >>>the other night and they were interviewing a guy
>>  that had restored Power
>> >>>Horse tractors.. Parts are apparently very hard to get for those
>> >>>tractors, you either need to make them or have a parts tractor. Anyway,
>> >>>he said when he got it the transmission gears were seized up, so he
>> >>>filled the transmission with charcoal briquets and let it burn, same
>> >>>type of idea. Those are neat little tractors by the way, made to be
>> >>>controlled just like a horse using reins to control the tractor via two
>> >>>levers.
>> >>>Mike M
>> >>>
>> >>>On 11/14/2013 7:22 AM, charlie hill wrote:
>> >>>> Dave if the part is such that you can do it without messing something
>> >>>> else
>> >>>> up
>> >>>> you might find you have better
>>  success, and cheaper, by just building a
>> >>>> big
>> >>>> fire and throwing the part in the bed of coals for a while.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Charlie
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Dave Johnson
>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:31 AM
>> >>>> To: at at lists.antique-tractor..com
>> >>>> Subject: [AT] OT: Rosebuds! The oxi-acetylene kind.....
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm pretty ok with cutting & brazing, but have never used a rosebud to
>> >>>> heat
>> >>>> something, and my experience today has me scratching my head.
>> >>>> The project at hand is freeing up a cast iron wheel hub, stuck on a
>> >>>> keyed
>> >>>> 1"
>> >>>> shaft. This is on an old Gilson / MW garden tractor transmission....
>> the
>> >>>> idea is to liberate a set of 4 of these hubs to make dual adapters for
>> >>>> use
>> >>>> on another tractor with a FEL.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have soaked it for quite some time and have a puller tensioned on
>> it,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> it's not moving.... so now it's time for a little heat.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I bought a new victor 8-MFA rosebud and lit it off as I would the
>> torch,
>> >>>> but
>> >>>> when I try to get a blue flame, it flames out with a pop!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What's going on here? Do I not want a hot blue flame, or do I simply
>> >>>> need
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> feed a lot more of both gases to the torch? Or??  Any insight into
>> these
>> >>>> things would be appreciated!
>> >>>>
>> >>>>     btw, I'm on digest, so it'll take a day for me to respond (:<((
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dave in Gilroy, CA
>> >>>> webguydave at yahoo.com
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>>
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