[Ford-ferguson] Ford Tractors displayed at the Henry Ford

[Jack Tractor Live]

A. I agree that Ford made a lot of equipment after the Ford-Ferguson 9N and
before the purchase by Fiat. It just is not displayed at the Henry Ford. 

D. It is acknowledged that Ferguson started design work on the TE20 in
England before the collapse of the handshake agreement. Henry Ford in his
old age was not able to make Fordson UK manufacture the 9N in the UK as the
handshake agreement called for.

E. I agree Ferguson was slow in adopting live hydraulics, live PTO, and four
wheel drive. I do not know how the hydraulic pump was driven on the
Ferguson-Brown. Clearly the patent infringement lawsuit propelled the Ford
side to improve the hydraulics by going to live hydraulics.

I own a copy of "Ford Tractors, N Series, Fordson, Ford and Ferguson, 1914 -
1954" text by Robert N Pripps. This book clearly states that the 9N was
manufactured at the Rouge complex.

F. I find the red and gray TO-35 to be one of the most attractive tractors I
have ever seen.

[rdlotze at juno.com] A. I think you missed a few years - Ford and Dearborn
Motors made a Lot of equipment and purchased New Holland BEFORE they sold
out to Fiat.
 
 What you are saying here is there was no 8N, no NNA, No
600-800-700-900-500, Many MANY 4 digit numbers before Fiat?.

 What you don't seem to know is that the Ferguson 3 point would not work on
the 9N until the Ford engineers modified the Effusion Control system. The
root cause was the Brown Ferguson had steel wheels while the 9N had rubber.
The Ferguson design was not fast enough to compensate for tire deflection.
Also when the hand shake broke down, D. Ferguson was stealing the drawings
for the 9N and ended up making the TO 20 and 30 in Canada from those
drawings. That is why you will find Ford and Ferguson rear ends or
transmissions or engines bolted together with each other today.

 You are correct that Ferguson played a major role in the modern tractor -
However he was getting nowhere in England, and if old Henry would have
turned him down we would still have each make of tractor having its own
system for mounted equipment. Don't forget - the hand shake agreement was -
Ford, you make em, and I'll sell them. If old Henry would have made junk,
old Harry wouldn't have been able to sell them. E. ALSO remember that
Ferguson tractors did not have position control and live hydraulics until
the F. TO35

B. NOW that is real let down!!!!!!! 

C. You could be wrong - see above

Jack Tractor Live [jacktractor at live.com] A. The Henry Ford Museum displays
one of the Ferguson-Brown Model As next to one of the prototype
Ford-Ferguson System 9Ns. It is pretty obvious they are father and son. The
sale of Ford Tractor to Fiat leads to very little Ford equipment newer than
the experimental 9N being displayed at the Henry Ford.

One of the problems with the Ferguson-Brown was that it was expensive to
manufacture. Part of the handshake agreement was to produce a tractor that
was both very good and attractively priced. Perhaps reverse engineering is
the wrong term since it implies copying piece by piece. Maybe competitive
analysis is a better one. Clearly part of the Ford emphasis was to use parts
that Ford were already manufacturing as much as possible. Clearly there are
improvements. 
 
The 9N has a PTO, fenders, cleaner look, etc.
 
A man within 5 miles of me owns a 1936 experimental Ford model. It has
narrow front, a V8 engine, and an automotive looking front grill. Clearly,
Ford wasn't getting anywhere on their own on re-entering the US market. I
lost photos of it in a hard disk crash but I may see it again.
 
 I actually know a man who worked in Ford Tractor spare part sales and
distribution after leaving the US Military at the end of WW2.
 
 Having worked in the Rouge in the recent past, I am interested in exploring
the connections to the 9N and Fordson F.
 
 In the metro Detroit area, many people will say they work or worked for
"Fords", rather than "Ford".
 
 The Legacy Quarterly issue mentioned actually details an account of the
Massey organization borrowing a new New Holland baler from a dealer who sold
both brands so they could analyze the design as part of developing their own
baler.
 
 Regardless of whether you are a Ford or a Ferguson supporter, and clearly I
lean towards the latter in the matter of tractors, the Ford-Ferguson
alliance took Ford from having little presence in the US tractor market to
being a world player. It did much the same for Ferguson. There seems to be
of a tendency among some to downplay Harry Fergusons' role in the
development of the modern tractor.
 

B. In the year 2013, Massey Ferguson is a tractor brand sold around the
world. You can actually buy a new Massey Ferguson that is very close in
design to a 9N.
 
C. [Mike Sloane] From everything I have ever heard about the Ford N, that
story is completely untrue. The only part of the Ford N that came from
Ferguson was the three point hitch system; everything else (good or bad)
came from the Ford engineers. But I could be wrong.
 
[Jack Tractor] The April 2013 edition of Massey Harris Ferguson Legacy
Quarterly contains a continuation of the Harry Ferguson's Black Tractor
article. The article mentions that one of the Ferguson-Brown Model As
brought to the US were disassembled and reverse engineered into the N Series
at the Rouge complex.
 
 www.legacyquarterly.com