[AT] Hybrid and GMO organic question answered

Grant Brians sales at heirloom-organic.com
Mon Jun 24 07:53:52 PDT 2013


As a Certified Organic farmer, I can respond to the GMO question. There are
two objections to GMOs in Organic production. First, in almost all cases the
genes being spliced in are not inherent to the plant being bred. Unlike the
popular image of gene-splicing of a precision cut and paste, the techniques
actually generate unwanted fragments and damages and could not be duplicated
in nature in any way. Since Organic farming both philosophically and
practically requires use of natural processes in its commision, both the
techniques and philosophy make this a non allowed process both by the law
and also by choice.
     Second, we have learned over time that genes and plant systems rarely
have single items that can be changed without added ramifications. For
instance, there are a set of genes that control plant response to drought in
soybeans. Certain ones change the stomata opening and closing to increase or
decrease the amount of moisture the plant can release from the leaves. If
you breed to reduce the amount of evaporation, then those work with genes
that affect the conversion of nutrients to plant growth and depending on the
temperatures when the drought conditions occur and the state of the root
system that may increase or decrease the yield loss from the drought.... GMO
techniques try to affect a single gene position and then you do not have
assurance that the other genes that need to interact actually get affected
in the way the plant needs to be able to produce a nutritious bean. In fact,
there are documented studies now that show allergies are coming about from
the BT and Roundup resistant gene insertion into many crops.
     Third, all commercial GMO breeding in field crops so far has been for
herbicide resistance or insertion of production of a super strength set of
the BT proteins. The BT proteins that are now produced in for example Corn,
have NEVER been tested for human toxicity as they are not the same as the
naturally occurring ones in Chrysanthemums....
     Hybridization, is acceptable but not always desirable in Organic
Farming. Hybridization is akin to what we humans do every time we have sex
that leads to a birth - we create a new genetic combination! Every commonly
planted Fruit and Nut tree in agriculture is a hybrid that is vegetatively
reproduced. Why? Because trees are most efficiently prodcued that way and if
one were to try to stabilize a Walnut variety into an open pollinated
variety, at 8 years to initial seed production per standard tree it would
mean that we would likely not have disease resistances etc. in these plants
for our use. The downsides to hybridization are well documented and may or
may not be manageable depending on the particular crop, management system
and techniques used to generate them. Properly maintained hybrid seed
production produces identical plants with identical characteristics. This is
useful for machine harvest and supermarket produce buyers. However it also
means that any new pathogen spreads like wildfire in a field. It also means
that inbred seed production (the lines that are maintained for producing
planting seed to sell) is vulnerable to any disruption and I could talk for
hours about the horror stories of seed crop failures, loss of resistances
and many other items that are problems in the chain.
     The biggest argument against hybrids are the lack of stability in
variety availability in field production and the fact that farmers give up
all control over their destiny with them. There do exist for example, Field
Corn open pollinated varieties that are producing yields that are equal to
or higher than the highest producing hybrids in field conditions. But they
cannot be purchased....
     I use both Open Pollinated and Hybrid seed. In most crops I use OP
seeds in preference to hybrids because they cost less, are available year
after year, often have better flavor (because they were bred that way not
because they are not hybrids) and if the seed companies choose to stop
producing them I have the option to grow my own seed. A hybrid seed you
cannot do that with, so when the seed company discontinues the varieties
that I need I am stuck without an option on a hybrid but have an option with
an open-pollinated seed....
           Grant Brians
           Hollister,California Vegetables, fruit and nuts farmer
p.s. We have lost in vegetables alone over 80% of the varieties that were
available 30 years ago. There was a variety of Cauliflower for each month
here in coastal California in 1940. Now there are two OP varieties available
and a handful of hybrids that were bred for Europe. The cheapest Hybrid
Cauliflower now seed costs over $1200 per pound versus OP seeds in the $40
range....

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of charlie hill
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 12:19 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] garden question; potatoes


Pretty much Richard.

I don't consider hybrid seed non-organic because plant varieties naturally
cross pollinate anyway.  If you don't believe it plant a row of bell peppers
alternated with hot peppers.  I promise you, you'll have HOT bell peppers.
I think what the Organic folks would worry about is plants that are hybrid
by means of gene splicing rather than through cross pollination.  For the
most part I think they are worried about nothing but there is always the
possibility that something totally un-natural gets "spliced in" so I guess
that is what bothers them.  Pretty much ignorance of how it was done I
think.
I don't mean they are ignorant.  I mean they are suspicious of what might
have
been done and not disclosed.

Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Fink Sr
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 3:45 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] garden question; potatoes

I have what may be a real dumb question. In organic farming how is it
organic if using a hybrid seed. Or one that has been made to be better[
witch means to me screwed with]  Charlie ain,t that what is to fix any
problem throw money at it????????
R Fink
PA
----- Original Message -----
From: <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2013 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] garden question; potatoes


> The lunatics are the county southeast of here, the liberal nut jobs are
> southwest and we are the blithering idiots at the top of the "Triangle"
> with
> the huge corporate tax revenues who have proven you can throw money at
> problems and not fix anything!
>
> Back to the organic, I don't know what she wanted with it but assuming it
> really mattered, I didn't want any part of the liability. She may have
> been
> using it for mulch on certified organic vegetables. There is a rather
> large
> market here for fresh local grown produce (not necessarily organic).  Got
> to
> respect the folks doing it because they are generally doing it on a very
> small, labor intensive scale---the new breed of small full-time farmers.
> They do produce a much better product, equivalent to a personal garden in
> my
> opinion. And, their cash is green when they buy a load of straw for mulch!
>
> I do get inquiries for straw for strange uses though. One guy bought some
> and was using it to locally grow some sort of farm-raised seafood
> (remember
> I am 3 hours from the ocean).  This was actually a small scale commercial
> business.
>
> Another fellow came and measured the bale size and checked the weight. He
> wanted to use it for insulating an exterior wall in a garage he was
> converting to an office. Thank goodness the baler had been acting up and
> the
> length was varying a couple inches. I can see it now, he hauls away 50
> bales
> and brings back 15 to swap for something a little shorter so he can
> squeeze
> it in the wall--I'm not running a lumber yard!
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charlie hill
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:54 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] garden question; potatoes
>
> You do realize that you live in the lunatic capital county of NC and
> possibly the S/E don't you?
> I would have told her it was organic.  Get your chemistry text out.  There
> are two kinds of
> things in the world, organic and inorganic.  Inorganic is minerals.  The
> rest is organic.
>
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jtchall at nc.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:39 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] garden question; potatoes
>
> Speaking of genetically modified, got to love dealing with the general
> public. I run an online ad to sell wheat straw most of the year. I had a
> lady inquire this spring if I had organic wheat straw. I told her no but
> if
> she were to search around on the net there was a farm in NC that raised
> organic wheat a couple years ago. Then she emailed back wanting to know if
> I
> "at least" had straw that was not genetically modified. I replied that GMO
> wheat does not exist outside of research labs and test fields. Hybrid
> crops
> are not the same as GMO. I went on tell her about all the wonderful
> chemical
> fertilizer, insecticide, and herbicide I treated my wheat with. That was
> enough to get her to go annoy someone else.
>
> John Hall
>
>
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