[AT] Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While

Sun Jul 14 15:46:36 PDT 2013

Tom,

Having recently fought with a Ford 3000 that sparked (more than 1/8") when
I flicked the ignition points with a screwdriver but still required
replacement of them, I've learned my experience apparently isn't at the
same level as yours. The points on these Fords are non-trivial and might
give the false sense of security. That said, be sure you also replace with
good ones as the Mandarin made ones cannot be cussed at loud enough. And
the good ones are exceedingly hard to find in some cases...

The problem I wrestled with was only a little more clear with a better than
average meter. When the points were engaged there was too much of a voltage
drop across them to fire the coil reliably with differing fuel/air mixtures
(as seen with choking, etc). This particular beast was supposed to have a
coil with an internal resistor but had been altered to a coil that needed
(but did not have) an external resistor. It would start and run for a short
period but stop again; running the choke a bit also seemed to help.

Replacement of the coil* with the proper type* cured part of the problem
(and this doesn't necessarily mean the type that is currently installed!);
replacing the points that had half an ohm on-resistance cured the other
part. This rig hadn't run in 4 months because the owner (a decent mechanic)
and a couple other "handy" types had all failed at getting it started. The
"replacement" parts were too generic and there wasn't any dealership
support for this model within 2 hours' drive. With better diagnostic
equipment, Google (which decidedly isn't a substitute for a factory
manual), starting fluid, 4 hours of fighting, some new parts and a dogged
determination to not be beaten, we finally broke through.

What had started as a somewhat intermittent issue had become 2 separate
ones that interacted. The equipment had been maintained with what parts
were available but we aren't in the country of origin for the tractor. My
theory (and it's just that) is that the coil drew more current than the
crappy plating on the points were up to. It would start and run for a
while; then the points would heat up and the resistance would go up.
Eventually it would loose spark voltage (this I was able to detect with my
spark tester)r to the point of engine stoppage. Cool down a bit and it
would restart and run for a few seconds sometimes. Clean the points and it
would do it all over again. No, it wasn't the condenser as we replaced that
a couple times and it never changed anything. The new replacement
condensers are still in the spare parts kit for the next time.

OK, so I'm a weekend warrior when it comes to wrenching on tractors and it
took me quite a while. If I was paying someone to do the work, they had
best be able to do this better and faster than myself but it isn't always
so. These are part of the reasons folks either pay for newer,
more-supported equipment, or team up with an experienced mechanic like
yourself.

Just my $0.02

Ken in AZ

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Tom <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> Ignoring the sarcasm. How long would it take you Dave to flick the points
> with a screwdriver with the ignition on?
> Personally I would have gone straight to replacing the coil, because in my
> experience that's where the problem lay.
>
> As for your experiences with '48 v8s, they always annoyed amateurs. :-)
> With the right equipment, they were a piece of cake, but then again my
> father owned a garage... And he dun bring me up proper to fix 'em proper.
> :-)
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Dave Rotigel <rotigel at me.com>
> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013 8:50 AM
> >Subject: Re: [AT] Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While
> >
> >
> >Five seconds to check out the both the points and the coil Tom? Wow, YOU
> ARE GOOD! From now on I will always defer to your superior knowledge and
> speed!
> >    Dave
> >PS, I'm really impressed with your knowledge and ability--REALLY!
> >
> >On Jul 14, 2013, at 4:28 PM, Tom wrote:
> >
> >> No, Dave, it would take me about 5 seconds to check the points
> >>  and condenser and 5 minutes to change the coil.
> >>
> >> One mustn't compare one's own experience with another's; some
> >> of us actually know how things work....
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Dave Rotigel <rotigel at me.com>
> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>> Sent: Monday, 15 July 2013 7:42 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yup, You could take 27 hours checking out ALL the necessary parts, or
> you could spend $100.00 and an hour of labor and get the same results. If
> your time is only worth $3-$4 dollars an hour, GO FOR IT!
> >>>     Dave
> >>> PS, For $100, I wouldn't give a darn what fixed it as long as it was
> cutting the grass once more!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jul 14, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Tom wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The traditional garage money-making way?
> >>>> Then you're still left not knowing which fixed the problem...
> >>>> To me, it sounds like the coil, coils can simulate a fuel problem then
> >>>> when cool work again; points are either good or bad; condensers are
> the
> >>>> most maligned component in a coil setup, but minimal labour to fit
> with
> >>>> points:- get replaced due to belts & braces (suspenders?) approaches.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>> From: "jtchall at nc.rr.com" <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> >>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, 14 July 2013 11:46 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm suggesting a shotgun approach--points, coil and condenser.. Mine
> and
> >>>>> dad's experience has been coils go out pretty quickly, as in seconds
> not
> >>>>> minutes, leading me to think it could be the condenser, but I'd bet
> on the
> >>>>> coil first. Considering the tractor is not at your house, it appears
> to be a
> >>>>> bit of inconvenience to work on it, that’s why I'd change it all and
> be done
> >>>>> with it. If all that doesn't solve the problem, I'd look into vapor
> locking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Hall
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> AT mailing list
> >>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> AT mailing list
> >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> AT mailing list
> >>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> AT mailing list
> >> http://www..antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >AT mailing list
> >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>