[AT] OT - bridge replacement

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Thu Feb 28 07:50:25 PST 2013


Mattias, I guess you are talking about what we call "frost heave".
That's a good point.  That's why my first response was to build
a head wall at each end of the drain pipe.  Once that is done then
the pipe can be covered over with soil that is consistent with
the soil on either side of the ditch and after compacting it should be
stable.   Then stone can be placed in the road bed that is the same as the
rest of the road bed.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mattias Kessén
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:16 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT - bridge replacement

Ok, languages are interesting. For frost in the ground we use the word
"tjäle" (the a in the middle should have two dots and is pronounced
somewhat like the first e in never and the at the end as the last e in
never). So I can that is hardto dig through tjälen. The n at the end has
the purpose of the in front of the word. Class dismissed.

Why I asked isn't because I think you have permafrost (the exact same word
as in swedish BTW) outside Alaska and from what I can remember none of the
list mebers are situated there. Anyway I believe Mike have gotten some
really good advice, but if the ground freezes he shouldn't use to good
material like makadam, crushed concrete etc. if not the road consists of
equal material. For those of you who don't know about this I'll explain.
Since frost in the ground will make most materials that holds water expand
about 9% he will get a low spot where he filled with better material.


Mattias


2013/2/28 Joe Hazewinkel <jahaze at aol.com>

> The frost line is about four feet in sandy soils in Michigan.  Slightly
> higher in heavy soils.  However, in the absence of snow cover, the frost
> can go much deeper and freeze water lines at ten feet or more.  It does
> happen every few years.
>
> Enjoy, Joe
>
> Sent from my iPhone just for you
>
> On Feb 28, 2013, at 7:56 AM, "charlie hill" <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Ken,  my guess was that Mattias was talking about anchoring the bridge
> into
> > the permafrost but I don't know.
> > I also don't know of anywhere in the US other than Alaska that has
> > permafrost.
> > Here where I live the frost line is about 8" and we haven't seen it
> freeze
> > that deep in a number of years.
> > Maybe someone can fill us in on the frost line in the northern states.
> > Ralph answered that same question
> > about his location in Saskatchewan a while back I believe but I don't
> > remember the details.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Knierim
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:30 AM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] OT - bridge replacement
> >
> > Charlie, Mattias
> >
> > Permafrost and freeze-line are in that area. In my experience:
> > Freeze-line is how deep the ground freezes during winter.
> > Permafrost is permanently frozen ground (think parts of the Arctic that
> > never thaw).
> >
> > Back in Montana the freeze-line would get to 6 feet and water lines had
> to
> > be deeper than that.
> > Here in Central AZ the freeze line is about 1/4". Ground temp during
> summer
> > here is usually above 80 degrees and pools have to be cooled.
> >
> > Spring has arrived here... the peach and apple trees are in full bloom
> and
> > the citrus is falling off the trees. Great tractor weather!
> >
> > Ken in AZ
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:13 AM, charlie hill
> > <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Mattias,  I don't think there is an English translation for that.... at
> >> least I don't know what you mean by it.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mattias Kessén
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:28 AM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT - bridge replacement
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >> Is this bridge situated where there are/can be frost in the ground?
> >> BTW isn't there one English word for "frost in the ground"?
> >>
> >> Mattias
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/2/28 charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> >>
> >>> Hi Spencer,  that fabric is a good idea.   I never have known a trade
> >> name
> >>> for it but in construction documents it's usually called "geo-textile
> >>> fabric" or something similar to that.
> >>>
> >>> Charlie
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Spencer Yost
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:55 PM
> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT - bridge replacement
> >>>
> >>> I might suggest you backfill to grade with dirt, then put the gravel 
> >>> on
> >>> "road paper" (I doubt that is the right name) to keep the gravel from
> >>> disappearing into the dirt.  It looks a lot like the back paper you
> >>> might
> >>> use use strawberry rows or gardens but is heavier.  I can usually get
> it
> >>> pretty reasonably priced. I spent 300 for a big roll the last time 
> >>> that
> >>> probably had 100 yards on it.  So about a buck a foot 10 years ago.
> >> Keeps
> >>> most of the weeds out too(not sure that matters for a tote path
> though).
> >>>
> >>> Even if you backfill entirely with gravel this might help some with
> >> gravel
> >>> migration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hope that helps,
> >>>
> >>> Spencer
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 26, 2013, at 23:35, Mike <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Our property is divided in two by a drainage ditch that is only full
> >>>> after a rain, and in the spring/early summer. There is one bridge
> >> across
> >>>> that is made from wood, and it is starting to fail. I use the bridge
> >>>> quite a bit to bring firewood up to the house with my MF 255 w/ FEL.
> >>>> I
> >>>> can see the wood is rotting and it is starting to sag as I go over 
> >>>> it,
> >>>> coupled with the fact that it only leaves me about 6" to spare on
> >> either
> >>>> side, it has to go. I would like to just remove it, and replace it
> >>>> with
> >>>> a 12"or 14" drain pipe covered with "gravel". Any ideas on what type
> >>>> of
> >>>> stone or gravel I should use so that it will stay stable and not turn
> >> to
> >>>> soup in the spring? Thanks, Mike
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> >>
> >>
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