[AT] After action report: Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While

[charlie hill]

Ethanol is hydroscopic.  The water will mix with the ethanol and will burn 
until
it gets to maximum absorption.  Does the gasoline you burn contain ethanol?
If so try to find a source for non-ethanol fuel.   I just finished fighting 
a similar
problem in my D-14 Allis.  (trash, rust, etc).  I think I had the carb apart 
at least
half a dozen times before I ever got the system completely cleaned out.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Nadeau
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 12:10 PM
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Subject: [AT] After action report: Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While

My thanks to all who replied.

The pig is now running quite nicely but I never found anything really 
serious taht I can pin the problem on.

Along the way I found even more reason to hate the lack of easy service on 
this machine.

I finally found the sediment bowl.  With the loader frame in the way if 
cannot be seen if you are standing beside the tractor.  If you squat down to 
just the right height you can finally see just the knurled nut holding the 
bowl in place.  The sediment bowl filled with what I can only identify as 
clear liquid.  My first thought was "water" but some of the unleaded stuff 
is virtually clear so that was inconclusive.  The bowl holds maybe an ounce 
of fluid, I dumped it out and re-installed the bowl.  Ran the tractor for an 
hour or more, seemed to run fine but I felt I was hearing the beginnings of 
the stumble again when it got down to about 1/8 tank.  I got more gas and 
ran it for 3-4 hours and again thought it was stumbling as it got low.

At that point I suspected a plugged outlet filter in the tank and as the 
height of fuel in the tank dropped off it was cutting fuel flow just enough 
to mess things up.

I disconnected the fuel line, drained several quarts of fuel into a clear 
jug, not so much as a drop of water showed up but the gas from our usual 
fuel stop is distinctly a dark yellow.  That reinforces the thought that the 
"clear liquid" in the sediment bowl was water.

Once the tank was empty I removed the outlet valve from the tank to inspect 
the filter which the book shows is in there. No filter, no evidence there 
ever was one, and no "muck" apparent when I flushed the tank with clean fuel 
while the valve was out.

There is a fuel pump on this engine but it seems to be made from an alloy of 
hideium/invisibilium and I cannot even see it, much less access it.  I could 
probably get the line off at the carb to check fuel delivery but at the 
moment I'm not going to screw with that unless the problem comes back.

I have now run it for several hours more and it seems to run fine, other 
than an odd "beat" in the exhaust.  That may just be typical sound of a 
three cylinder engine.  This is my first experience with a 3-holer so I 
really don't know how one should sound.

I'm not sure how this is connected but the absolutely miserable, eye 
smarting, exhaust fumes are gone as well.  Those were so bad that it was 
common that my eyes would be  red and inflamed after an hour or two, to the 
point I would have to stop and flush them occasionally to ease the 
discomfort.  Very similar to the symptoms of the discharge from a messed up 
burner on those forced air, kerosene burning "torpedo space heaters, taken 
to several orders of magnitude worse.

I never did check any of the ignition system.  There is not one part of that 
which I can access with the loader installed.  With both hands working 100% 
I could "probably" get things apart and back together. Even the primary 
terminals on the coil are so buried that I can't see them, much less get 
probes in there to check input voltage.

While I am now inclined to put this down to water in the fuel there are 
several holes in that explanation.  If the sediment bowl was originally full 
of water, to where water was going into the card, why did it not just quit 
completely.  Why would it run fine for a while and then die?  There was no 
water in the tank when I drained it so it seems pretty amazing that there 
was just one bowl-full of  water in the system.

I would much prefer to have found something identifiable as I am not much 
for coincidences.

    Subject: [AT] Ford 4000 Quitting Afer Running a While

    The shooting club I belong to has a Ford 4000 which is having "issues". 
I'm
    not sure where to start trying to narrow it down.  This is the newer 
version
    with the 3 cyl. gas engine, not the early one which looks like a beefed 
up N
    Series.  We use it, with a 6 foot bushhog, to keep the weed/brush growth
    down on several acres of old pasture land around the club grounds.  I 
get
    along with it as it is the right age, even if it is an off brand(Ford 
was
    never real popular around here).  Nobody else really cares to operate it 
as
    it is a bit of a clubfoot and is not a shiny compact tractor.

    I starts fine and runs good for the first 1-2 hours.  Then it starts to
    stumble and over a few minutes gets worse until it dies completely.
    Sometimes it will restart immediately and run (barely) for a few 
seconds, at
    other times it won't restart without sitting 30-45 minutes.  After that 
rest
    period it will again run normally but for a shorter time, continuing 
that
    sequence until It won't run at all until completely cooled down.

    When it starts stumbling I can usually notice the difference in engine 
note.
    If I catch it in time I find I can take the load off it, close the 
throttle
    to barely above idle and, by playing with the choke, manage to limp it 
back
    to the barn.

    It doesn't backfire when it acts up, if it was going lean I would expect 
it
    to belch and bellow.  If the ignition was cutting out completely, then
    kicking back in I would also expect a horrendous backfire from unburned 
fuel
    filling the exhaust and then getting lit off.

    Since I am always alone when I'm working it I don't have anyone around 
to
    help in trying to troubleshoot the thing.  Unless I am constantly 
playing
    with the choke it dies, there is no pulling the choke partway and having 
it
    continue to run.

    One thing that may be relevant or not is that this thing has the 
absolutely
    harsh exhaust fumes I have ever been exposed to.  Terrible eye 
irritating
    stuff.  I added some to the stack so it is quite a bit higher than my 
head
    and I'm still coming home with my eyes so irritated that I often have to
    pull my eyelids part manually when awakening the morning after a hogging
    session.

    Anyone have any ideas?  If you want more information ask any questions 
and
    I'll answer them as fully as I can.

    As for taking it to a shop, it is really hard now to find anyone who 
knows
    diddly about carburetors and spark ignition.  Because it only acts up 
after
    being worked for a while I'm not sure how viable it would be to get it 
into
    a shop.  Now that I think about it I may well let it run at high idle 
and
    see if it craps out without a load.  If it does that would make getting 
it
    to a shop a bit more practical.

    Al Nadeau
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