[AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Sat Sep 22 21:44:00 PDT 2012

But therin lies the problem Grant, you see the old trees once established have figured out how to pass rules in the forest to make sure they never get pruned. They take fruit and seeds from some plants, and distribute them to other plants and animals in the forest, making sure those plants and animals know that the old trees where responsible for their freebies. Now when it comes time to get pruned guess who is seen as too valuable to prune? Why of course it's the old trees who provide for all the other plants animals of the forest, with things that don't belong to them in the first place. Mike M

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Grant Brians 
Receiver: Antique tractor email discussion group 
Time: 2012-09-21, 11:54:35
Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Every so often a
massive pruning is just smart. When did we have a massive pruning last???? I
look forward to that happening, but also a society of law is not Socialism,
it is a functioning society.
       Grant Brians

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dave Rotigel
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:22 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property

You mean that in KA there are still some areas where an individual still has
the freedom to use their personal property as they see fit? This is NOT
GOOD! VOTE OBAMA and and MORE socialism!
  Dave
PS, "Land of Fruits and Nuts"? Now I understand!

On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Grant Brians wrote:

> Here in California we have two basic classes of forest - those in areas
> where there are controls enforced and those where the controls are not.
The
> Santa Cruz Mountains near us are one of the areas that are managed forests
> that the timber companies only harvest in ways that are sustainable and
> everyone involved KNOWS that the plan will be followed. On the other hand,
> even though plans are required for any forests, here in my county, there
are
> people that just indiscriminately cut down the old growth oak and pines
and
> assume the state's foresters will not catch them or will just admonish
them.
> I know of one rancher that is a terrible offender like this, but so far
the
> forester has not been able to prove that the rancher is the one doing the
> work because the forester covers an area about the size of Sweden....
> Firewood collection is something that is needed from some of our
> forests to assure the larger trees make it to harvest maturity because of
> the low precipitation levels of much of California. But at the same time
> intelligence is CLEARLY needed to retain the soils (nearly all forest in
> California is on hillsides or mountainsides, much of which exceeds 30%
> grades and some as much as 75%) and to keep the proper mix of plants to
> support wildlife and control erosion. Some states do not require forest
> management plans, but thankfully we do - the lack thereof in past times
led
> to spectacular flood events and property and habitat destruction, we
learned
> the hard way and with many lawyers and insurance companies involved....
> Grant Brians
> Hollister,California Vegetable, Fruit and Nuts farmer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Mattias Kessen
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
>
>
> You Americans never seize to surprise. No offense but is it common to own
> forest without a plan and harvest often for firewood. I'm beginning to
> question my understanding of the English language and I know little about
> modern forest industry here but... I'm surprised. I've always thought
> forest to be a long term investment. Once again no offense I'm aware that
> our societies are very different and can't be compared therefor (which is
> very apparent when you read most Swedish newspapers reporting from USA,
> using our standards for you is absurd as the other way around).
> I think I've got to pour me another whisky here in the sauna and read more
> of Arto Paasilinnas great authorship.
>
> Mattias
> Den 17 sep 2012 16:22 skrev "Mark Greer" <markagreer at embarqmail.com>:
>
>> You need to create a "Timber Management Plan". This involves having a
>> qualified forester advise/help you develop a plan for your woodlot's
>> specific conditions and your specific intentions for it. You will
> inventory
>> and value trees which have good potential and then develop a plan to help
>> them reach that potential at a faster rate. This involves Timber Stand
>> Improvement (TSI) work which may include selective thinning around crop
>> trees, trimming/removing grape vines, selective harvesting for timber,
>> etc., etc. It is an ongoing process but can be financially very much
worth
>> your while. Your local Ag Extension service would be one place to start
>> looking for this information to get started. Pennsylvania DCNR is also a
>> good place to start looking for information.
>>
>> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/privatelands.aspx
>>
>> An active Timber Management plan is a must for land owned where you plan
>> to sell timber some day. The tax ramifications of not having a documented
>> working plan can make it not worth selling timber because you stand to
> lose
>> so much of a sale to taxes. By inventorying and valuing the trees at the
>> time of land purchase and then looking at the difference in value at the
>> time of sale, you can count a sale as a capital gain and only owe the
> lower
>> capital gains tax rate on the difference (the capital gain) vs. just
>> selling timber and paying the higher income tax rate on the WHOLE sale.
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
>> Yes, I think I'm going to contact an un-biased forester and create a
>> logging
>> plan.
>>
>> Hopefully we will follow the plan and there will be no surprises in the
>> family.
>>
>> Thank you everybody for the information.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Will
>> SE PA
>>
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