[AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Grant Brians sales at heirloom-organic.com
Fri Sep 21 08:54:35 PDT 2012


In my county, the primary reason the indiscriminate tree cutters are a
problem is the erosion (the effect on climate change is there too but much
slower). Most of the forests and pastures I am referring to have slopes that
exceed 40 degrees - very steep. When these people cut the trees in question
and then doze the stumps, the soils start to erode into the creeks and cause
creekbank erosion, river erosion, erosive floods and property loss. On one
of the places I farm, because there was an improperly built dam upstream,
when it broke, 30 miles of creeks lost massive amounts of banks, the habitat
for the salamanders and other animals was decimated, and multiple landowners
lost around 1000 acres of their land. The forestry regulations here are
intended to protect private property and public property, not to make it
difficult to log. California has a large timber industry and except for the
corporate raider purchased Pacific Lumber back a number of years ago, the
regulations we have are actually supported by nearly all of the timber
operators because it protects their long term interests. We now have more
logging in the Santa Cruz Mountains than in years with better quality lumber
being produced. Regulations that are necessary and properly designed help
protect private enterprise from unscrupulous people. The key is to assure
that they are designed correctly. Bad regulations do not do that.
     I have been active in my local county politics to try and assure good
results and eternal vigilance is necessary because people make bad decisions
frequently. I like it here. I do not like all regulations. When I ran for
County Supervisor (and yes I lost both times), I publicly and privately
spoke encouraging removal of as many unnecessary laws and regulations as
possible. My guess is that we could get rid of close to 90% of them because
they either ar duplicative, unnecessary, useless or just plain wrong. But in
every part of the country (and many others), laws and regulations
proliferate because someone believes there is a need. Every so often a
massive pruning is just smart. When did we have a massive pruning last???? I
look forward to that happening, but also a society of law is not Socialism,
it is a functioning society.
       Grant Brians

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dave Rotigel
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:22 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property


You mean that in KA there are still some areas where an individual still has
the freedom to use their personal property as they see fit? This is NOT
GOOD! VOTE OBAMA and and  MORE socialism!
	Dave
PS, "Land of Fruits and Nuts"? Now I understand!

On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Grant Brians wrote:

> Here in California we have two basic classes of forest - those in areas
> where there are controls enforced and those where the controls are not.
The
> Santa Cruz Mountains near us are one of the areas that are managed forests
> that the timber companies only harvest in ways that are sustainable and
> everyone involved KNOWS that the plan will be followed. On the other hand,
> even though plans are required for any forests, here in my county, there
are
> people that just indiscriminately cut down the old growth oak and pines
and
> assume the state's foresters will not catch them or will just admonish
them.
> I know of one rancher that is a terrible offender like this, but so far
the
> forester has not been able to prove that the rancher is the one doing the
> work because the forester covers an area about the size of Sweden....
>     Firewood collection is something that is needed from some of our
> forests to assure the larger trees make it to harvest maturity because of
> the low precipitation levels of much of California. But at the same time
> intelligence is CLEARLY needed to retain the soils (nearly all forest in
> California is on hillsides or mountainsides, much of which exceeds 30%
> grades and some as much as 75%) and to keep the proper mix of plants to
> support wildlife and control erosion. Some states do not require forest
> management plans, but thankfully we do - the lack thereof in past times
led
> to spectacular flood events and property and habitat destruction, we
learned
> the hard way and with many lawyers and insurance companies involved....
>         Grant Brians
>         Hollister,California Vegetable, Fruit and Nuts farmer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Mattias Kessen
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
>
>
> You Americans never seize to surprise. No offense but is it common to own
> forest without a plan and harvest often for firewood. I'm beginning to
> question my understanding of the English language and I know little about
> modern forest industry here but... I'm surprised. I've always thought
> forest to be a long term investment. Once again no offense I'm aware that
> our societies are very different and can't be compared therefor (which is
> very apparent when you read most Swedish newspapers reporting from USA,
> using our standards for you is absurd as the other way around).
> I think I've got to pour me another whisky here in the sauna and read more
> of Arto Paasilinnas great authorship.
>
> Mattias
> Den 17 sep 2012 16:22 skrev "Mark Greer" <markagreer at embarqmail.com>:
>
>> You need to create a "Timber Management Plan". This involves having a
>> qualified forester advise/help you develop a plan for your woodlot's
>> specific conditions and your specific intentions for it. You will
> inventory
>> and value trees which have good potential and then develop a plan to help
>> them reach that potential at a faster rate. This involves Timber Stand
>> Improvement (TSI) work which may include selective thinning around crop
>> trees, trimming/removing grape vines, selective harvesting for timber,
>> etc., etc. It is an ongoing process but can be financially very much
worth
>> your while. Your local Ag Extension service would be one place to start
>> looking for this information to get started. Pennsylvania DCNR is also a
>> good place to start looking for information.
>>
>> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/privatelands.aspx
>>
>> An active Timber Management plan is a must for land owned where you plan
>> to sell timber some day. The tax ramifications of not having a documented
>> working plan can make it not worth selling timber because you stand to
> lose
>> so much of a sale to taxes. By inventorying and valuing the trees at the
>> time of land purchase and then looking at the difference in value at the
>> time of sale, you can count a sale as a capital gain and only owe the
> lower
>> capital gains tax rate on the difference (the capital gain) vs. just
>> selling timber and paying the higher income tax rate on the WHOLE sale.
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
>> Yes, I think I'm going to contact an un-biased forester and create a
>> logging
>> plan.
>>
>> Hopefully we will follow the plan and there will be no surprises in the
>> family.
>>
>> Thank you everybody for the information.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Will
>> SE PA
>>
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