[AT] ATIS members

Ken Knierim ken.knierim at gmail.com
Fri Nov 9 04:48:11 PST 2012


Hey Charlie,
     What exactly is wrong with the carb? If the throttle shaft is worn
out, it could be tough to fix but nearly everything else (cracked castings
or broken plastic aside) can be repaired or replaced. The concept of having
a junkpile of scrapped engines comes into play. Most horizontal shaft
Briggs engines live long enough to wear other things out (carbs, valves,
etc) and if you can get some parts from vertical shaft engines (which are
much less long-lived, IMHO) you're better off. The biggest thing with the
carbs is the diaphram gets stretched and won't pump fuel and it makes
getting them started a real bear. A $3 kit includes the diaphram and takes
half an hour to clean the carb and install it. You can get the needle
valves if you need and just replace the parts. Much easier than trying to
retrofit another carb on there unless you have a very similar carb for
parts.

Since this is one of your own, the balance sheet changes... but you still
want it reliable, I'm sure. There are dead mowers and whatnot going to
scrap all the time. Look there for parts too. I'd lean toward a new kit in
either that carb or a direct replacement. Briggs has a habit of making the
same (or an interchangeable equivalent) for long periods of time.
Simplifies parts chains, education, etc, and makes your job of putting them
together a lot simpler.

Hope this helps.

Ken in AZ

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 5:20 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:

> Ken or others,
>
> I've got a garden tiller with a 5 hp Briggs & Stratton.  It's got a lot of
> years on it but very few hours.
> I converted it to electronic ignition probably 10 years ago.  The engine
> it's self is just fine but
> it's got one of those carbs on it that connects directly to the top of the
> fuel tank and that thing is nothing
> but trouble on a good day and now it's gone bad again.  What I'd like to do
> is find a carb that will fit it
> and hook up to the governor, etc. that works with a remote fuel tank that I
> will mount to the handle bars
> and gravity feed to the carb.   Have you got any ideas or recommendations?
>
> I've got one very old carb here that is in good shape.  It's a Lawson Power
> products carb.  One of the old
> ones with the stamped metal float bowl attached to the bottom.  I think it
> will work but there is no provision
> to hook it to the engine governor.   I don't care about the governor anyway
> but I don't know what to do with the
> linkage or how to bypass the governor.
>
> New engines are cheap enough these days that I can't justify spending a lot
> on it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Knierim
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:18 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] ATIS members
>
> Ben,
>     I did small engine repair while I went through electronics school
> ('82-'84 timeframe), and I now run a small business in electronics. Here's
> my take on it: (beware; this got rather long. feel free to hit delete)
>
> Cleanliness is cannot be overstressed! Pressure washers, air hoses,
> cleaning equipment, whatever it takes. You can't find problems you cannot
> see for the gunk.
>
> As others have pointed out, when it comes to 2-stroke engines, carbs are
> cheaper than labor these days. Replace whenever possible. Otherwise, get a
> can of carb cleaner, keep it fresh, and get a new seal kit with each carb
> and replace the diaphrams. They die and make 'em impossible to start.
> Replace fuel lines wherever feasible.
>
> Learn the method to starting a 2-cycle and follow it. It'll save your arms!
> (primer until the bulb feels different if equipped, full choke and
> throttle, pull it until you hear a pop, go to half choke, pull it once or
> twice more and it should be running. choke off as it warms up.)
>
> I used to use WD-40 as starting fluid for 2-strokes. Now it's useless for
> that. I've started using carb cleaner but it's not as easy on the engines.
> Ether is bad for 2-strokes because of how it thins down the oil. Find
> something that works for you.
>
> Get access to small engine repair websites. briggsandstratton.com is your
> friend. Type in the engine codes, get an exploded view and order the parts
> as required. Get yourself set up to order parts. Get tools. I highly
> recommend the flywheel pulling tools from B&S if you work on those. others
> exist depending on makes and configs. Seeing what the tools look like in
> the manuals, which you'll want to build an archive of (electronic archive
> these days), may help you find them at swap meets, etc. Better yet, if you
> find an old timer that's hanging up his tools, see if you can work a deal
> with him or her. Another one is to use forums like this as a resource.
> There are a LOT of really good people out there that like to help when
> there is an appreciative student.
>
> Go to a reputable small engine repair shop and figure out what they charge
> for prices to open something up, etc. Use this as your pricing guideline.
> You can knock it down a little but SE repair is usually cutthroat. Find out
> the going rates and stay competitive or you'll wish you had.
>
> Don't cheap yourself. If you have a customer that just wants to cheap the
> repair, they're probably going to whine when it doesn't run like a new
> unit. No sense in loosing money AND having a whiney customer about it. The
> ones that want to pay for a quality repair generally understand what it
> takes and are better to deal with (general rule, but people are people). If
> they want to "save" money on something and not put in a new spark plug or
> carb kit or whatever (parts are cheaper than labor!), they may be telling
> you they don't think your time is worth anything. Learn to deal with this,
> be gentle but firm about pricing. Know where the nearest lowball competitor
> is and offer to send them there. You want the business that pays you to do
> what you love. It'll rarely pay well, but you DO want to make SOMETHING
> because tools, parts, buildings and food all cost money.
>
> Try and get yourself a fleet to work with; steady work is a steady
> paycheck, even if you're just changing oil, sharpening blades and cleaning
> filters. I did it as part of a lawn service company in Phoenix. Repairs
> generally do better when economic times are rough, new sales are generally
> better when things are moving along. You may need to repower old equipment
> when the engines are too beat up and it's cheaper to put a new one on
> instead. We had several decks (mower frames of the push variety) that would
> wear out an engine every 6 months with daily oil changes, filter cleanings
> and blade sharpenings. The problem was the carb throttle shafts, not the
> engines themselves.
>
> If you tear a Briggs down and have to go into the bottom end and it's going
> on something that gets daily usage, don't. Scrap it; it's not worth it.
> Similar with other makes, but you get the gist. If the bottom end is worn
> or abused, the unit is probably not worth keeping on life support as
> something else is about to go too. If you're putting a warranty on your
> work, these basket cases WILL cost you. Do you and your customer a favor...
> scrap the engine and find a replacement.
>
> If you can convert the breaker point engines to electronic ignition (kits
> used to exist; I haven't looked for them lately but they are WORTH it!) you
> might consider it.
>
> Cheap fuel ISN'T. Put the highest grade pump gas in these beasts and they
> run better. 92 Octane is cheap insurance. Recommend it to folks using power
> equipment. "Oh, but it's too expensive!" Horsepucky! One recalcitrant
> starting engine can rapidly turn into a warranty call as fuel never gets
> better when it's in the tank. Start as good as you can, use a fuel additive
> (Sta-Bil has treated me well) and tell them to run it out before they park
> the engine (they won't, but at least you told them when they bring it back
> in 6 months or a year)
>
> Little things like stocking a few fuel bulbs, gas caps, common carb kits,
> air filters, oil and whatnot can be profitable. If customers know you stock
> it or can get it, they will tell others. Do something wrong, and they will
> tell a LOT MORE others though. Apologizing for poor quality really bothers
> me, so I strive to get it RIGHT that much harder.
>
> Older engines are enjoyable but the market is a lot smaller than the newer
> stuff (at least in AZ). Most of it was designed to be throw away
> (especially 2-stroke stuff), but many manufacturers put a lot of thought
> into making the engines serviceable and maintainable. They make money off
> parts and do know how to support the engines.
>
> The biggest thing is, enjoy it. Take something that's been neglected, tear
> it down, clean it up, and make it purr and there is a sense of
> accomplishment. If you treat it as a hobby that's done with profit in mind
> (while you keep another job), you might be able to build up a decent
> clientele and not starve.
>
> If you're going to go after restoration thoughts, you will likely end up
> going a different direction. I'm a big fan of American Restoration on
> History Channel. What they do is different and may be more to your liking.
> It can also be profitable from the look of things... once you get that
> reputation. To get there, you probably need to have a wider skill-set than
> average... in addition to making the engine run, you have to beat the dents
> out of the sheet metal, sandblast the rust off, put a couple shiny coats of
> paint on it, polish the brass and then find a buyer. There ARE a few more
> steps to that path, and each will require refinement. I'm stuck in the
> "make the engine run" phase, which I tend to like the best.
>
> Just my thoughts, and worth what you paid for it. I wish you well in your
> endeavors and if I can help, well, let me know.
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Ben Wagner <supera1948 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Here's one of the younger folks in love with his antique machines!
> >
> > I think one of the better ways to get my generation involved in antiques
> > is to be ready to answer all the stupid questions you have heard for the
> > twentieth time.  I know you folks on the list have been exemplary at
> > that for me when I worked through my first restoration, and I know you
> > still are for others, as well as when I get in a bind!
> >
> > On another note, I plan to be working with antiques for a long time.  I
> > received a reputation as "that guy who works on those old magnetos and
> > hand cranked engines" among mechanics and "that guy who bothers me every
> > week about Grandpa's tractor behind the barn" among everyone else.  As a
> > result, I am starting a small business working on antique equipment, and
> > buying/repairing/restoring/selling anything old with an engine I can
> > find.  Any advice is still (and will be) greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks for all your help through the years I have read and asked too
> > many questions.  Even though I haven't posted much, reason standing that
> > I still think of myself as too inexperienced to talk, I have enjoyed
> > quietly learning from all of your knowledge.
> >
> > If ever anyone is in the Shenandoah Valley of VA, drop by and say hello!
> >
> > Ben Wagner
> >
> >
> > On 11/7/2012 9:49 AM, Cecil R Bearden wrote:
> > > I was looking at Mike Sloane's albums of the atis members.   I feel
> like
> > > I know you guys even though we have never met in person.   I just did
> > > not realize how many years we had been "talking" on this list.   I also
> > > am concerned about what we are going to do about getting more younger
> > > folks involved in this hobby or just working with tractors.   I
> > > personally will have tractors around until I can no longer move.
> > > However, I have lately gravitated toward my tractors with the cab.  I
> > > used the 930 Case to sow wheat this time just because I live to drive
> > > it.  The steering gear started to lock up, I hope I can use the parts
> > > from the 900 Case I have for parts. Here in OK, thewind is always 15 to
> > > 25 gusting to 35.  When it is below 50 deg. riding a tractor is cold.
> > > At 90 deg and upward to 110 as this summer was, that  can dry you out
> > > real quick.  The cab on the Belarus tractors is good because you can
> > > open the doors and all the windows.  The NH TS110 just has an air
> > > conditioner that cools to 60 deg..    With the thoughts of skin cancer
> > > from sun exposure, I am going to use the cab tractors.
> > > Cecil in okla
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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