[AT] Ethanol

Fri Dec 31 14:35:17 PST 2010

When distilling an ethanol/water mixture there is a binary azeotrope 
(distills over together) of 95/5 ethanol/water so I would think that is 
reasonable.  I know for chem lab use you can get 100% ethanol in small 
quantities at a significant increase in cost.

David
NW NC

On 12/31/2010 11:32 AM, charlie hill wrote:
> That's what I would expect Jim.  I think you are right 190 proof or 95% is
> as pure as they can get it.   The product Everclear that people use to mix
> alcohol spiked punches is billed as pure grain alcohol and it is 190 proof.
> Not that I'm an expert on the subject.  I've got a fifth of old grand dad in
> the cabinet that someone gave me 5 or 10 years ago.  The seal wouldn't be
> broken except that I decided to mix up some old fashioned lemon, honey and
> wiskey cough syrup a while back.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim&  Lyn Evans
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:31 AM
> To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol
>
> If I remember correctly from a plant tour, the ethanol is as close to pure
> as you can get.  Something above 190 proof.  They have some sort of a
> special process to get as much water as they can from the batch.
>
> Then they add a small percentage of gasoline to the batch in order to make
> it not drinkable.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 7:31 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol
>
> Does anyone know the "proof" or percentage alcohol of the ethanol added to
> gasoline?  If it is pure stuff, or 200 proof, then it will absorb up to 50%
> of it's volume of water and still burn.
> Some of the products we buy to absorb moisture from our fuel systems are
> nothing but ethanol.  Back in my truck driving days, in cold weather, we
> used to add a bottle of rubbing alcohol to each
> fuel tank on fill up to keep any water that might be in the tanks from
> freezing and blocking a fuel line.  I think there are legitimate concerns
> about damage to fuel lines and carb parts in SOME equipment and small
> engines but I've never had a problem with it.  As far as ethanol breaking
> down or separating into water,  I don't remember much about organic
> chemistry but I don't see how that is possible.
> I've got some Kentucky Whiskey in the cabinet that's been there a long time
> and last time I checked it was still alcohol.  If it were left with the top
> off the bottle or if it was heated or boiled the alcohol would escape into
> the atmosphere at about 180 degs.  The stuff left behind would be the water
> that was originally added to the whiskey when it was made.  Now,  if the
> ethanol they are adding to our fuel is 100 proof stuff (50% alcohol-50%
> water to begin with) maybe it is a problem.  I prefer to run straight
> gasoline in my stuff but I intentionally burn some ethanol blended gas now
> and then to make sure
> there is no water in my fuel tanks.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecil Bearden
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:05 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol
>
> I have less problems with the E10 super unleaded than I ever had with
> regular gas.  If you run the ethanol based fuel in an old tank, get some
> throwaway fuel filters and change them often for the first year, If you
> drain your tank completely after ethanol fuel, it will dry out completely
> and you can vacuum out the crud with a shop vac.  Regular unleaded without
> ethanol has water mixed in it and when it evaporates the white stuff left is
> the surfactant that makes the gas mix with the water.  I have run fire pumps
> that had to make a pressure and volume test.  With regular unleaded they
> would only make 100 psi on a 2 inch hose with a 3/4 nozzle.  With the
> ethanol blend it would make 130 with the same nozzle and same conditions.
> I use only super unleaded in my gasoline engines here on the farm and the
> construction work I do.  It costs more, but creates less downtime.  I
> believe it is cheaper in the long run.  It also stops icing of the
> carburetor when running a generator during an ice storm outage and it is 20
> deg with ice on everything at 2am.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim&  Lyn Evans"<jevans at evanstoys.com>
> To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol
>
>
>> The problem is you associate bad gasoline with ethanol.  I can assure you
>> that 100 percent gasoline made today gunks up the fuel system in 2 months
>> without ethanol's help.  Gasoline use to be made by refining crude oil - a
>> certain percentage is all the gasoline crude can produce naturally.
>> Because
>> we demand so much gasoline today, the gasoline is artificially created
>> from
>> crude using chemicals from the portions of crude that used to create LP or
>> diesel..   It creates a higher percentage of gasoline, but it is not as
>> high
>> of quality as it was in the old days.
>>
>> I have option of buying 10% or pure gasoline where I am at.  I buy E10 for
>> all my vehicles and motorcycles (98% of my purchases).  The tractors get E
>> nothing just because I don't want to deal with the dirty tanks that will
>> get
>> cleaned when I add ethanol.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tatlock
>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:09 PM
>> To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
>> Subject: [AT] Ethanol
>>
>> Phil Vorwerk's carefully written and researched comments strike a note
>> of reason in this discussion.  Anyone with old cars, antique cars, cars
>> built before the '70s are having trouble with ethanol fuels.  Is "gas"
>> any good that can't be kept more than 2 months without separating and
>> forming water in your gas tank?  Small engine repairmen- people who are
>> depended upon for landscapers and yard men and homeowners with small
>> engines-- mowers, garden tractors, all the string trimmers. boat
>> engines, large and small,--- ask those guys how great a boon ethanol is.
>>
>> Honest car dealers and repairmen will tell you about the number of fuel
>> pumps, gas lines, and gas tanks that have had to have repairs due to
>> corrosion from ethanol gas.  And the suggestion is to lower our gas
>> mileage by adding ethanol to 15%, aggravating the problem.
>> (My gas dealer says the percentage is not stable and may fluctuate from
>> 10% to 15 or 18% even now-- standard brand gas.)
>>
>> Maybe the old tractors we talk about here will be ok.  No rubber to
>> deteriorate in fuel lines or aluminum (carb parts?), and they were able
>> to handle pretty much anything except molasses, but engines of other
>> equipment that sit unused for any length of time (over two months?) are
>> possible victims of the dreaded separation effect.   Ask your engine
>> mechanic.  Ask your small engine repairmen.
>>
>> Then go buy a $12 bottle of stuff to try to counteract the ravages of
>> ethanol.
>>
>> Oh yes-- corn farmers-- good for you, but why does nobody mention that
>> many of you are raising feed corn for ethanol on the same land you used
>> to raise corn for food?  Can't blame you, it makes economic sense.  But
>> bread does cost more.
>>
>> I have said all this just to suggest you talk to some of the people who
>> see the negative outcome of corn for fuel.  Brazil makes it from
>> sugarcane-- but we might have trouble raising sugarcane in Dakota.  The
>> present ethanol situation is a tribute to Washington Congressmen (both
>> parties), mostly from the "corn states", and high powered deals made by
>> them and others not-from-corn-states who traded favors as politicians
>> do-- with the "help" of really strong lobbyists.  (There are more
>> lobbyists in DC than there are Congressmen--fact).
>>
>> This is an indictment of ethanol-- not the people who raise the grain.
>> Ask around and see what you find out. It may be different from this.
>> This is my opinion, what's yours?
>>
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