[AT] Ethanol

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Fri Dec 31 05:31:11 PST 2010


Does anyone know the "proof" or percentage alcohol of the ethanol added to 
gasoline?  If it is pure stuff, or 200 proof, then it will absorb up to 50% 
of it's volume of water and still burn.
Some of the products we buy to absorb moisture from our fuel systems are 
nothing but ethanol.  Back in my truck driving days, in cold weather, we 
used to add a bottle of rubbing alcohol to each
fuel tank on fill up to keep any water that might be in the tanks from 
freezing and blocking a fuel line.  I think there are legitimate concerns 
about damage to fuel lines and carb parts in SOME equipment and small 
engines but I've never had a problem with it.  As far as ethanol breaking 
down or separating into water,  I don't remember much about organic 
chemistry but I don't see how that is possible.
I've got some Kentucky Whiskey in the cabinet that's been there a long time 
and last time I checked it was still alcohol.  If it were left with the top 
off the bottle or if it was heated or boiled the alcohol would escape into 
the atmosphere at about 180 degs.  The stuff left behind would be the water 
that was originally added to the whiskey when it was made.  Now,  if the 
ethanol they are adding to our fuel is 100 proof stuff (50% alcohol-50% 
water to begin with) maybe it is a problem.  I prefer to run straight 
gasoline in my stuff but I intentionally burn some ethanol blended gas now 
and then to make sure
there is no water in my fuel tanks.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cecil Bearden
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:05 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol

I have less problems with the E10 super unleaded than I ever had with
regular gas.  If you run the ethanol based fuel in an old tank, get some
throwaway fuel filters and change them often for the first year, If you
drain your tank completely after ethanol fuel, it will dry out completely
and you can vacuum out the crud with a shop vac.  Regular unleaded without
ethanol has water mixed in it and when it evaporates the white stuff left is
the surfactant that makes the gas mix with the water.  I have run fire pumps
that had to make a pressure and volume test.  With regular unleaded they
would only make 100 psi on a 2 inch hose with a 3/4 nozzle.  With the
ethanol blend it would make 130 with the same nozzle and same conditions.
I use only super unleaded in my gasoline engines here on the farm and the
construction work I do.  It costs more, but creates less downtime.  I
believe it is cheaper in the long run.  It also stops icing of the
carburetor when running a generator during an ice storm outage and it is 20
deg with ice on everything at 2am.

Cecil in OKla


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim & Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [AT] Ethanol


> The problem is you associate bad gasoline with ethanol.  I can assure you
> that 100 percent gasoline made today gunks up the fuel system in 2 months
> without ethanol's help.  Gasoline use to be made by refining crude oil - a
> certain percentage is all the gasoline crude can produce naturally.
> Because
> we demand so much gasoline today, the gasoline is artificially created
> from
> crude using chemicals from the portions of crude that used to create LP or
> diesel..   It creates a higher percentage of gasoline, but it is not as
> high
> of quality as it was in the old days.
>
> I have option of buying 10% or pure gasoline where I am at.  I buy E10 for
> all my vehicles and motorcycles (98% of my purchases).  The tractors get E
> nothing just because I don't want to deal with the dirty tanks that will
> get
> cleaned when I add ethanol.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Carl Tatlock
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:09 PM
> To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> Subject: [AT] Ethanol
>
> Phil Vorwerk's carefully written and researched comments strike a note
> of reason in this discussion.  Anyone with old cars, antique cars, cars
> built before the '70s are having trouble with ethanol fuels.  Is "gas"
> any good that can't be kept more than 2 months without separating and
> forming water in your gas tank?  Small engine repairmen- people who are
> depended upon for landscapers and yard men and homeowners with small
> engines-- mowers, garden tractors, all the string trimmers. boat
> engines, large and small,--- ask those guys how great a boon ethanol is.
>
> Honest car dealers and repairmen will tell you about the number of fuel
> pumps, gas lines, and gas tanks that have had to have repairs due to
> corrosion from ethanol gas.  And the suggestion is to lower our gas
> mileage by adding ethanol to 15%, aggravating the problem.
> (My gas dealer says the percentage is not stable and may fluctuate from
> 10% to 15 or 18% even now-- standard brand gas.)
>
> Maybe the old tractors we talk about here will be ok.  No rubber to
> deteriorate in fuel lines or aluminum (carb parts?), and they were able
> to handle pretty much anything except molasses, but engines of other
> equipment that sit unused for any length of time (over two months?) are
> possible victims of the dreaded separation effect.   Ask your engine
> mechanic.  Ask your small engine repairmen.
>
> Then go buy a $12 bottle of stuff to try to counteract the ravages of
> ethanol.
>
> Oh yes-- corn farmers-- good for you, but why does nobody mention that
> many of you are raising feed corn for ethanol on the same land you used
> to raise corn for food?  Can't blame you, it makes economic sense.  But
> bread does cost more.
>
> I have said all this just to suggest you talk to some of the people who
> see the negative outcome of corn for fuel.  Brazil makes it from
> sugarcane-- but we might have trouble raising sugarcane in Dakota.  The
> present ethanol situation is a tribute to Washington Congressmen (both
> parties), mostly from the "corn states", and high powered deals made by
> them and others not-from-corn-states who traded favors as politicians
> do-- with the "help" of really strong lobbyists.  (There are more
> lobbyists in DC than there are Congressmen--fact).
>
> This is an indictment of ethanol-- not the people who raise the grain.
> Ask around and see what you find out. It may be different from this.
> This is my opinion, what's yours?
>
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