[AT] energy

[soffiler at ct.metrocast.net]

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Claudeprintequip at aol.com
Subject: Re: [AT] energy
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:08:00 EST
 
>I'm not an engineer or anything else.   I am simply 
>curious.  Does your  statement then mean we
>get more energy return from gasoline than the energy used
>in the   manufacturing process? 

The terms of interest are "net energy balance" and "EROEI"
(energy returned over energy input).  The raging debate
whether ethanol is a winner or loser uses these terms
constantly.  Some of the debates compare ethanol to
gasoline.  Everything I can find on the subject pegs
gasoline at 5:1... that is, you get five times as much
energy back as you expended to manufacture it. 


>... I thought
>when we changed anything from one form to another there was
>some energy   loss...

True.  Nothing is perfect in this world.

>...  Do we not use more
>energy producing a gallon of gasoline than the gallon can 
>produce?

Not even close, see above.  We get back five times as much
as we put in.

>...  Also we  create pollutants twice in
>this process.   I have no idea what the comparative
>percentage of  energy  return from manufacturing cost and
>resultant pollution would be  from  fuel cell  versus
>gasoline. 

I don't follow you.

>... I can't  believe a bunch of  modern engineers
>are really  trying to get more energy back than the energy
>used  in the manufacturing process...

That statement make sense when discussing any form of energy
STORAGE.... rechargeable batteries, hydraulic or pneumatic
accumulators, capacitors, flywheels...

You are apparently missing the fact that gasoline is an
energy SOURCE, that merely needs some minor energy input in
order to transform it from crude oil into gasoline.  You put
one energy unit into the transformation, and you get five
units of usable energy from the resulting product.

 
>I'm not trying to be argumentative. I don't like giving up
>on the fuel  cell. 
> It doesn't produce any pollutants. There is secondary
>value to  be added  back to fuel cell because of zero
>pollution. I don't know if there is a  way to  determine
>the dollar value of this benefit or not either.   
>Nevertheless, it  has definite and very desirable secondary
>value.

What fuel source are you assuming for the fuel cell?


Best regards,
Steve O.