[Steam-engine] Indicator

Richard Strobel Richard_Strobel7 at msn.com
Sat Feb 16 03:52:56 PST 2008 

Thanks for what you do and the help Francis!!  Techantiques is a great site 
and have had some nice dealings with them in the past.  Bruce, Charlie, 
Andy, Jeff and others whom I've forgot have also been a great help.  Big 
time CRS on this end and I sincerely apolize for that.

  Ok here's the concern with the vertical single simple Wachs timing.  We 
have no lead, so no cushion i.e. the ports open after Dead Centers and we 
would like to have them open just prior to dead centers.  The eccentric is 
keyed to the crankshaft.  Crankshaft has two keyways so we assume that 
engine rotation can be reversed.  BTW., there's no reverser lever on this 
engine.  Eccentric setscrew marks on crank show that the keys must have been 
removed in the past and timing has been tinkered with.  There are many 
setscrew marks on crank throughout it's circumference.

  Here's the plan after we get the crank and rod back from the crank doc. 
It's got the preverbial .010 knock and very annoying.

1.  Center the piston in it's throw by adjusting the piston rod.

2.  Tram in the crank/piston to find absolute TDC..probably should say "Dead 
Centers."

3.  Lock eccentric to crank with key..we don't care at this point which way 
it runs.

4.  Adjust eccentric linkage, D valve rod, so they have equal throw.

5.  Look to see if we now have "lead."

Some things that have been mentioned in the past and on other forums have 
been;

"D" valve too tall...remember it's a vertical.

Maybe Wachs didn't use lead...I've heard rumors some engines didn't and run 
fine.

Build a new eccentric with correct keyway so it does have lead...this is a 
possiblity.


  Well gang, that's enough for now...any advise is appreciated.

Best Regards and Happy Steamin'

RickinMt.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francis Orr" <steam.boat at verizon.net>
To: "Steam-engine mailing list" <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Indicator


> Rick,
>
> That is a great website on the indicator. However, one thing it doesn't 
> tell
> or show, you need to take TWO cards, one for each end of the cylinder 
> unless
> you have a single acting engine. The normal piping on a large engine has a
> cock on the indicator steam line that lets you select one end of the
> cylinder or the other.
>
> You asked about valve setting. I will have to dig up a piece of video for
> you about an engine in Brooklyn. It was a generating engine and the load 
> had
> decreased to where it was only the elevators (DC) and the engine had 
> gotten
> very very noisy. An old engineer was called in and after taking indicator
> cards, he reset the valves and the engine quieted right down.
>
> In another case in Pearl City, Hawaii (Pearl Harbor area) the sugar mill
> there wanted to up their output but weren't sure if the engine on the cane
> rolls was up to it. After running indicator cards, they found that they
> could get a couple of hundred more HP out of it and up their production.
>
> Francis A. Orr
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Richard Strobel" <Richard_Strobel7 at msn.com>
> To: "Steam-engine mailing list" <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Indicator
>
>
> > Thanks Bruce..most interesting.  So the spring loaded string goes on the
> > eccentric rod....where on the engine is the pressure tapped off of for 
> > the
> > indicator?
> >
> >   Peter Forbes has a nice site for some indicators.  I always like the
> > workmanship on these old tools:
> >
> > http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Indicator/Indicator1.htm
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Bruce & Marlene Babcock" <babcock2 at gte.net>
> > To: "Steam-engine mailing list" 
> > <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Indicator
> >
> >
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > I have several indicators and, over the past few years, I have been
> using
> > > them on traction engines at several of the shows here in Ohio, and at
> one
> > > show in Indiana.  I have also used one on the 100+ year old engines on
> the
> > > steamboat the Belle of Louisville, and on one stationary steam engine.
> > >
> > > Yes, they are fascinating tools.  I have learned, however, that being
> able
> > > to take cards with with an indicator and being able to understand what
> > > they mean are two separate challenges.  I am still working on the 
> > > second
> > > part.
> > >
> > > One difficulty in using an indicator is to find one that has the
> > > appropriate accessories:
> > >   1.. You will need to have a reducing motion to reduce the stroke of
> the
> > > engine to  4 or 5-inches, which is the most that an indicator can
> handle.
> > > It is possible to make your own reducing motion if necessary.  I made
> one
> > > for the Belle of Louisville because the 6ft. 6 in. stroke was too much
> for
> > > any reducing motion I have.
> > >   2.. You will also need to have the proper size spring in the
> indicator.
> > > If the spring is too strong, you will get results that are to small to
> be
> > > meaningful.  If the spring is too weak you can still use it, but you
> will
> > > need to reduce the load on the engine to get meaningful cards and to
> avoid
> > > damaging the spring.
> > >   3.. To use an indicator, you must have the engine under a load.  The
> > > best load is a Prony brake because it is easily adjustable.  I have 
> > > used
> a
> > > Baker fan on one occasion.
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Bruce E. Babcock
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Richard Strobel" <Richard_Strobel7 at msn.com>
> > > To: "Steam-engine mailing list"
> <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:47 PM
> > > Subject: [Steam-engine] Indicator
> > >
> > >
> > > > Howdy all;
> > > >   Does anyone have a steam indicator and knows how to use it?  Seems
> > > > like a
> > > > fascinating tool.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > RickinMt.
> > > >
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