[AT] Canola to diesel

Mon Feb 5 10:05:00 PST 2007

I have been following this line of messages with interest. I agree with you 
Tom in that any engine that ignites the fuel by way of compression and not 
by a spark plug is a true diesel engine. Fuel is irrelevant because the 
original diesel engine was designed by Rudolph Diesel to run on anything 
(perume,vegetable oil etc) There are various designs of diesel engines. The 
most common are the open chamber (what I think George is referring to as the 
true diesel), the precombustion chamber, the turbulence chamber, and the 
spherical(hypercycle) chamber. The following info is from the Navy 
construction course manual:
The open combustion chamber (fig. 5-2) is the

simplest form of chamber. It is suitable for only slowspeed,

four-stroke cycle engines, but is widely used in

two-stroke cycle diesel engines. In the open chamber,

the fuel is injected directly into the space on top of the

cylinder. The combustion space, formed by the top of

the piston and the cylinder head, usually is shaped to

provide s swirling action of the air, as the piston comes

up on the compression stroke. There are no special

pockets, cells, or passages to aid the mixing of the fuel

and air. This type of chamber requires a higher injection

pressure and a greater degree of fuel atomization than is

required by other combustion chambers to obtain an

acceptable level of fuel mixing

The precombustion chamber (fig. 5-3) is an

auxiliary chamber at the top of the cylinder. It is

connected to the main combustion chamber by a

restricted throat or passage. The precombustion

chamber conditions the fuel for final combustion in the

cylinder. A hollowed-out portion of the piston top

causes turbulence in the main combustion chamber, as

the fuel enters from the precombustion chamber to aid

in mixing with air.

The turbulence chamber (fig. 54) is similar in

appearance to the precombustion chamber, but its

function is different. There is very little clearance

between the top of the piston and the head, so a high

percentage of the air between the piston and cylinder

head is forced into the turbulence chamber during the

compression stroke. The chamber is usually spherical,

and the small opening through which the air must pass

causes an increase in air velocity, as it enters the

chamber. This turbulence speed is about 50 times

crankshaft speed. The fuel injection is timed to occur

when the turbulence in the chamber is greatest. This

ensures a thorough mixing of the fuel and air, causing

the greater part of combustion to take place in the

turbulence chamber.

The spherical (hypercycle) combustion chamber

(fig. 5-5) is designed principally for use in the multifuel

diesel engine. The chamber consists of a basic open

type chamber with a spherical shaped relief in the top of

the piston head. The chamber works in conjunction

with a strategically positioned injector and an intake

port that produces a swirling effect, as it enters the

chamber.

Me agian.These types are all diesel engines but use different methods to 
ensure a good mixture of fuel and air. Hope this helps clarify this 
discussion

Larry Mason

Hackensack MN

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Yasnowski" <tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel

>I guess it all depends on what one thinks a "true diesel" really is...To me 
>if the fuel, whatever that fule is, can ignite with compression instead of 
>spark than I view it as a compression engine. If its bastardized in ways 
>you and George describe and you no longer considier it a compression 
>engine, then I guess thats your right. But I would bet the EPA  and DOT 
>would call my MB a "diesel".
>
>
>>From: "Ken Knierim" <ken.knierim at gmail.com>
>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel
>>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 08:59:56 -0700
>>
>>Tom,
>>     The fact that the engine has a throttle plate and the ball pin
>>indicates it has different parts than a true Diesel engine. Take them
>>out to make it a Diesel and see what happens. From the description
>>given, this engine is a lot closer to a "hot-bulb" engine. Might I
>>suggest you do some research on those engines?
>>There are a number of different engines that will burn diesel fuel; I
>>have a TD-14 crawler that starts on gas and switches to diesel. It's a
>>combination of different types of engines; it has a direct injection
>>pump on one side and a carb and spark plugs on the other.
>>There are also the "kerosene" types that preheat the fuel in the
>>manifold; they can burn diesel as well but that does NOT make them a
>>Diesel engine. There is also a Hesselman that used direct injection
>>that fit your classification but had a very low compression ratio
>>(Allis Chalmers and Case tried them). It wasn't a Diesel either.
>>Honest, there IS a difference. The fact that you've been able to start
>>it without the factory-installed glow plugs doesn't mean they're not
>>necessary; the factory engineers had to justify them to the
>>beancounters before they put them in, so they're probably there for a
>>reason, just like the ball pins. You might not know the reason, but
>>I'd venture a guess the factory engineers knew why. A true compression
>>engine would not require the "hot bulb' of the heated ball pin.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_bulb_engine
>>is a good link and they have a comparison with a Diesel engine.
>>
>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>Ken in AZ
>>
>>On 2/5/07, Tom Yasnowski <tomyasnowski at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Of course diesel engines have changed and improved over the years.  But 
>>>the
>>>basic premise is still the same--ignition thru compression of fuel as
>>>opposed to a spark.  George says with the MB glow plugs are necessary for
>>>ignition.  Wonder how I started mine cold when my glowplugs were not 
>>>working
>>>last fall? The heated ball pin aids in combustion but is not required.
>>>
>>>
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