[AT] Canola to diesel

Mon Feb 5 10:27:06 PST 2007

I got this response from a diesel mechanic who specializes in MB--Note I 
took out the nasty words that were included..he does not have a very good 
disposition...

"They have a throttle plate that restricts the intake severely at low 
speeds, resulting in compression ratios far below those required for true 
diesel operation...possibly less than 3:1 at idle. This throttle plate is 
not to be confused with the safety plate working like a check valve to 
prevent the engine from running backward."

Wow, a plethora of ignorance. Had any of this been posed as a question it 
would be understandable, but as a statement...

Mercedes do not have a throttle plate as you describe, some very early 
diesels have a "Butterfly valve" and the intention was to increase vacuum in 
the intake manifold at idle, they are tensioned closed by gravity or a small 
spring and overcome as soon as the throttle is depressed, the throttle 
itself releases tension on the fuel rail allowing it to move according to 
raising vacuum of the running engine. The butterfly was thought to get rid 
of lag. If there were a throttle plate reducing air, it would still not 
restrict compression as the plate you are speaking of has a hole in it the 
size of a quarter.

"Compression ignition requires manifold pressure very near atmospheric so 
enough air is drawn in on the intake stroke for the necessary ignition 
pressure to occur. With the throttle plate nearly closed the manifold 
pressure, or vacuum if you prefer, prevents an adequate charge of air to be 
drawn in for the necessary compression for diesel operation."

How do you explain turbo charged and supercharged diesels? My 6V92TA has a 
supercharger to give it adequate air when starting and at idle, and a turbo 
for power. How does that figure into your warped concept of the diesel 
engine?

"the manifold pressure, or vacuum if you prefer"

The up, or down if you prefer. The on, or off if you prefer....

"They require glow plugs for starting and a heated ball pin
(acting like a constant glow plug) for continued running. A broken ball pin
will make the cylinder unable to fire. The injectors feed into a pre-chamber
containing both the glow plug and the heated ball pin. The combustion
begins there and is forced through an orfice into the main combustion 
chamber. "

Preheating the intake air is very common in diesels. Some use glow plugs, 
some intake air heaters, still others use ether injection. IF you are going 
to discount these factors, you will have no diesels left. A broken "Ball 
pin" will not prevent the cylinder from working, I have seen many, it will 
reduce the efficiency of burn, a concept common to all prechamber engines or 
about 9/10ths of the diesels made before 1980

"It's understandable that many Mercedes owners aren't aware of the
odd ignition system since it's unlikely many even consider working on
them. Of the eight I've owned 6 have been "diesels" and I've completely
rebuilt most of them. "

But still you have no concept of their operation. I have been working on 
them for nearly 30 years beginning at age 15. Your statements are absurd. 
You are not a human if you have coffee in the morning because in primitive 
times they did not have coffee. If you cook your food you are not a man 
because a real man does not need to cook his food.

>From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:11:25 -0500
>
>Mike,
>
>Unlike that Tom guy I'll only tell you what I know from experience and 
>study
>to be true.  I know of no reason to think they aren't true diesels because 
>I
>have no experience with them.
>
>George Willer
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:34 AM
> > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> >
> > So today's "diesels" like Ford Powerstroke's and Dodge Cummins, true
> > diesels or hot bulb engines?
> > Mike
> >
> > -- "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net> wrote:
> > I'm done.  I won't argue with one who remains willfully ignorant.  I
> > never
> > claimed that the Mercedes engines I'm quite familiar with have spark
> > plugs... only that they aren't true diesels.  They cannot run as
> > compression
> > ignition unless the throttle plate is opened.  You could learn that
> > if you
> > try.
> >
> > My wife has driven a lot of miles just as you have, and she can do it
> > without understanding the engine either.
> >
> > George Willer
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
> > > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 4:01 AM
> > > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
> > >
> > > Ok George, your right. I dont have a compression engine. Id better
> > change
> > > the spark plugs, its been a while.
> >
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