[AT] GM Flex Fuel vehicles

Tue Aug 1 20:11:49 PDT 2006

If your Jeep is designed to run on it then you won't have a problem. 
Take a vehicle that isn't designed to run on it and you will have 
problems with the emissions and with the way the engine runs as well. 
Just a fact of the content of the energy and the burn characteristics of 
the fuel. Oh and another small item, you do know it is illegal to run 
E-85 in a vehicle that isn't supposed to run it? That falls under the 
same laws as running leaded gas in a vehicle that uses unleaded. The 
feds consider it emissions tampering and they have shown that it 
pollutes almost twice as bad as a vehicle designed for it. Been reading 
up on those items due to folks having drivability concerns with vehicles 
that they put E-85 in when it called for unleaded. The worst thing is 
that your supposed to drain the system, connect to a portable fuel 
system and then test the engine that way. Really making it a pain. 
Personally I'd rather see them just make all the vehicles flex fuel and 
be done with it.

TEL was once used extensively as an additive in gasoline for its ability 
to increase the fuel's octane rating (that is, to prevent its premature 
detonation in the engine) thus allowing the use of higher compression 
ratios for greater efficiency and power. In addition some of the lead 
was deposited on the valve seats and helped protect them against wear.

Larry D. Goss wrote:
> It's interesting how this subject brings out all sorts of information --
> good and bad.  You guys might want to Google "tetraethyl lead" and read
> some of the info.  Then go to:
> http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000320/kitman and see the history of lead
> additives, the substitutes, and E85.
> 
> All I know is that my Jeep gets great mileage on E85 out across Kansas,
> Colorado, Nebraska, and Iowa.  I ran a Mazda for 128,000 miles on
> gasohol and the only engine problem I had with it was that one of the
> spark plugs galled and stripped the threads out when they were being
> changed at 100,000.
> 
> Larry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve W.
> Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 4:08 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] GM Flex Fuel vehicles
> 
> Unless it has the E85 cap and a fuel composition sensor it MAY run on it
> 
> but it won't be nearly as efficient. Even with the proper equipment you 
> lose about 10% on mpg numbers. Even more as the alcohol content goes up.
> 
> David Bruce wrote:
>> All this is interesting as if I remember correctly my Dodge Ram is E85
> 
>> ok without any changes (not read the owner's manual since I've slept
> so 
>> this may or may not be true).  I haven't seen any E85 around here
> anyway.
>> David
>> NW NC
>> I'll bet Charlie is warm (or hiding under the AC)
>>
>> charlie hill wrote:
>>> Thanks Steve,
>>>
>>> That pretty much answers what I wanted to know.  The next question 
>>> is:  I wonder if GM could make a conversion kit for their vehicles 
>>> (since they obviously know the differences between the two versions),
> 
>>> do the testing and get it approved for conversion at a GM dealer or 
>>> something like that.  Much the same way the aftermarket industry gets
> 
>>> performance equipment approved maybe.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] GM Flex Fuel vehicles
>>>
>>>
>>>> Charlie,
>>>>  There are three major differences in them. One is the gas cap 
>>>> itself. Besides being Yellow it has a different vent valve in it 
>>>> because alcohol is hygroscopic so the venting is set up to only vent
> 
>>>> pressure. The second is the fuel line assembly. There is a 700.00 
>>>> flex fuel sensor in the line that tells the computer what the mix in
> 
>>>> the tank is. The sensor is the same for all the flex fuel vehicles 
>>>> made from 2002 and up. The line itself is also made of a different 
>>>> material. The last change is in the injectors. Since alcohol has
> less 
>>>> energy than gasoline they increased the flow rate for the flex 
>>>> vehicles to accommodate the higher rate of fuel flow.
>>>>
>>>> Now for the REAL problem. It is Illegal to convert any unleaded 
>>>> fueled vehicle to a different fuel unless you have the DOT do a test
> 
>>>> on the entire vehicle and can prove that it meets or exceeds the 
>>>> emissions standards for that vehicle type. That test is about 
>>>> 10,000.00 to have done. There are NO approved kits or methods out 
>>>> there to convert a vehicle to E-85 or other fuel. Get caught driving
> 
>>>> a converted vehicle and you get to pay a BIG fine for tampering with
> 
>>>> the emissions system of the vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faqs/conversion.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> charlie hill wrote:
>>>>> I have a question for the resident GM experts.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 2006 GMC sierra pickup.  That same truck and same engine 
>>>>> are available in a Flex Fuel (E85) version.   I have no plan on 
>>>>> trying to switch mine but I'm curious about the mechanical 
>>>>> differences in the two engines. Obviously the computers are set up 
>>>>> different but does anyone know what else is different about them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to me that since GM makes them both ways it should be
> possible 
>>>>> to change the gas setup to flex fuel with off the shelf parts.
>>>>> It would probably cost too much and right now it wouldn't make much
> 
>>>>> sense to do it anyway.  I'm just curious about the process.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AT mailing list
>>>>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AT mailing list
>>>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>
>>>>
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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