[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

Terry L. Hrdlicka th01209 at alltel.net
Fri Mar 11 18:48:18 PST 2005 

Heck, this is a friendly discussion compared to the O.T. post I had on 
YTMAG about the state trying to close our country schools a couple of 
weeks ago.  Got so bad that Kim pulled 'em less than 4 hours after I 
posted.  Amazing how folks that boast about "preserving our farming 
heritage" will turn on you when you quit talking about it and try to do it!

Back on the subject of the meters....I saw the ads on Ebay, and I agree 
with both sides.  The seller should have said something like "these are 
new meters, modified to duplicate OEM."  The ad I saw was foggy by 
stating that these are NEW, which I assume they are, but it kind of left 
the impression that they were NEW JOHN DEERE originals.  By the same 
token, the ad did give a satisfaction guarantee, so if the buyer isn't 
happy, and the seller honors his guarantee, nobody gets screwed.

I would hope in the future the seller would be a little more 
forthcoming, and the buyers would be a little more cautious.  It still 
boils down to "if you don't know EXACTLY what you're buying, DON'T buy 
it."  I've made that mistake before, several times, and the only one I 
have to blame is myself!  I've got a pile of stuff that I thought would 
work, but it "don't fit", because I didn't know as much as I should have 
known.

By the way, they're still debating the bill to close my kids "one room 
country school."

About .08 worth,

Terry


Tommy wrote:
> OMG,     Here we go again. Oh well, the list has been pretty quiet the 
> last few days. Might as well have another argument...............
> 
> 
> At 01:07 PM 3/11/05 -0800, you wrote:
> 
>> Dana:
>>
>> I think you are comparing apples and oranges.  When you receive that 
>> "New"
>> starter from Deere and it is defective, Deere will stand behind that with
>> whatever warranty they offer. However, a "New" Speed Hour meter that 
>> has had
>> the Borg Warner original tag removed (partially torn off in my case) and
>> also has been modified by a third party is now only supported by the 
>> seller
>> who did the modifications. I also think Borg Warner would take great 
>> issue
>> with it being called "New" from their perspective. All warranties and
>> support has to be assumed by the seller in this case, unless previous
>> arrangements have been made with the original manufacturer of the 
>> meter. .
>>
>> I'm sure JD would take issue with a JD Dealer making unauthorized
>> modifications to their "New" and warranted starter. I am 100% sure that
>> those unauthorized modifications would void JD's warranty and the only
>> warranty for the customer would have to be supplied by the dealer. 
>> Which is
>> fine as long as the customer is so notified.
>>
>> I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here. I'm only stating that the
>> seller could be more forthcoming by more accurately defining the modified
>> product and where the warranty and support is going to come from.
>>
>> "New" to me implies manufacturer's warranty.
>>
>> Dean A. Van Peursem
>> Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>> I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>> storeroom door
>>
>>
>> www.deerelegacy.com
>>
>> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>> Almost-Running Deere
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:28 AM
>> To: antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>>
>> I think we all know that New Old stock (NOS) is different from new 
>> which is
>> different rebuilt.  New correctly describes it in my opinion.  I can 
>> buy a
>> new starter from Deere but it isn't NOS.
>>
>> my opinion
>>
>> Dana
>> SE PA
>>
>> >From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>> >Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing
>> >list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >To: "'Antique John Deere mailing
>> >list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>> >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:17:09 -0800
>> >
>> >Greg:
>> >
>> >After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that these
>> >meters
>> >are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to 
>> have a
>> >reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and PTO
>> >speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the original 
>> part
>> >number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's.
>> >
>> >And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not as 
>> NOS.
>> >It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New Factory
>> >Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the
>> >factory.
>> >
>> >
>> >I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner meters,
>> >modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
>> >wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they 
>> might be
>> >completely new factory standard product with associated factory 
>> warranties,
>> >etc.
>> >
>> >The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is
>> >important
>> >information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as 
>> advertised; it
>> >is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
>> >troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not honor 
>> their
>> >warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect 
>> that
>> >nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not 
>> spelled
>> >out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is 
>> identified.
>> >
>> >At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
>> >customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal 
>> issue.
>> >Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or
>> >incorrect
>> >first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the 
>> customers
>> >expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
>> >received.
>> >
>> >Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings and
>> >disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at 
>> fault.
>> >
>> >Dean A. Van Peursem
>> >Snohomish, WA 98290
>> >
>> >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>> >storeroom door
>> >
>> >
>> >www.deerelegacy.com
>> >
>> >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On 
>> Behalf Of
>> >greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
>> >Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
>> >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>> >
>> >A couple of things on these speed hour meters.
>> >
>> >Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous 
>> times
>> >over the
>> >last year or so.
>> >
>> >First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
>> >Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate new.
>> >Genuine new
>> >old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he 
>> wanted
>> >to
>> >offer a
>> >more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be 
>> able to
>> >disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their original
>> >vintage
>> >counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe 
>> the only
>> >hourmeters
>> >that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show 
>> that
>> >even these,
>> >over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5 
>> hours.
>> >He
>> >believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will 
>> ever
>> >approach
>> >anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and 
>> install
>> >correctly.
>> >
>> >Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises these
>> >meters as New
>> >and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone is 
>> not
>> >satisfied he
>> >will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask 
>> for any
>> >more than
>> >that in my book.
>> >
>> >All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
>> >impossible to
>> >locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter available
>> >today.
>> >It's all
>> >a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.
>> >
>> >So that's what I know about this subject
>> >
>> >Feel free to ask questions if need be
>> >
>> >Greg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Greg Stephen
>> >The Old Tractor Company
>> >Stephen Equipment Company
>> >PO Box 709
>> >Franktown, CO 80116
>> >303-663-5246
>> >303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!
>> >
>> >On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:
>> >
>> > >Dennis:
>> > >
>> > >These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD except 
>> the
>> > >seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and 
>> face and
>> > >puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for the
>> > >respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part 
>> number on
>> >it
>> > >from the 50's, not the subbed number.
>> > >
>> > >So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters 
>> with
>> > >modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently
>> >licensed
>> > >by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware of 
>> just
>> >the
>> > >face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not 
>> on the
>> > >one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes 
>> too.
>> > >
>> > >These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour 
>> Meters that
>> >JD
>> > >sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and tractor 
>> are
>> >set
>> > >up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read 
>> incorrectly
>> >on
>> > >ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter.
>> > >
>> > >I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour 
>> meter
>> >from
>> > >JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or 
>> do you
>> > >spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct.
>> > >
>> > >I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his 
>> eBay
>> >ads
>> > >for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the
>> >description
>> > >of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit
>> >disgruntled
>> > >by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either the
>> >removal
>> > >or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had
>> >received
>> >a
>> > >refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
>> > >impression.
>> > >
>> > >In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or 
>> more on
>> > >refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The 
>> advantage of
>> > >refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained if
>> >they
>> > >are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can 
>> depend on
>> >that
>> > >very much.
>> > >
>> > >Dean A. Van Peursem
>> > >Snohomish, WA 98290
>> > >
>> > >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>> > >storeroom door
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >www.deerelegacy.com
>> > >
>> > >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo 
>>
>> >hndeere-
>> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>> > >Cotton Family
>> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
>> > >To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
>> > >Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
>> > >
>> > >I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
>> > >talking...
>> > >Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
>> > >
>> > >On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that are on
>> > >eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder if
>> > >Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
>> > >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo 
>>
>> >hndeere-
>> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>> > >Of Kenneth Jones
>> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
>> > >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>> > >Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "
>> > >
>> > >      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
>> > >
>> > >Ken Jones
>> > >
>> > >Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >Dennis,
>> > >
>> > >Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope 
>> ass is
>> > >weel now !!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Ken Jones
>> > >
>> > >Cotton Family wrote:
>> > >Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have had
>> > >problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >Antique-johndeere mailing list
>> > >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/antique-johndeere
>> > >
>> > >
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