[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

Fri Mar 11 14:15:57 PST 2005

OMG,     Here we go again. Oh well, the list has been pretty quiet the last 
few days. Might as well have another argument...............

At 01:07 PM 3/11/05 -0800, you wrote:
>Dana:
>
>I think you are comparing apples and oranges.  When you receive that "New"
>starter from Deere and it is defective, Deere will stand behind that with
>whatever warranty they offer. However, a "New" Speed Hour meter that has had
>the Borg Warner original tag removed (partially torn off in my case) and
>also has been modified by a third party is now only supported by the seller
>who did the modifications. I also think Borg Warner would take great issue
>with it being called "New" from their perspective. All warranties and
>support has to be assumed by the seller in this case, unless previous
>arrangements have been made with the original manufacturer of the meter. .
>
>I'm sure JD would take issue with a JD Dealer making unauthorized
>modifications to their "New" and warranted starter. I am 100% sure that
>those unauthorized modifications would void JD's warranty and the only
>warranty for the customer would have to be supplied by the dealer. Which is
>fine as long as the customer is so notified.
>
>I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here. I'm only stating that the
>seller could be more forthcoming by more accurately defining the modified
>product and where the warranty and support is going to come from.
>
>"New" to me implies manufacturer's warranty.
>
>Dean A. Van Peursem
>Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>storeroom door
>
>
>www.deerelegacy.com
>
>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>Almost-Running Deere
>Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:28 AM
>To: antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com
>Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>
>I think we all know that New Old stock (NOS) is different from new which is
>different rebuilt.  New correctly describes it in my opinion.  I can buy a
>new starter from Deere but it isn't NOS.
>
>my opinion
>
>Dana
>SE PA
>
> >From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
> >Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing
> >list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >To: "'Antique John Deere mailing
> >list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:17:09 -0800
> >
> >Greg:
> >
> >After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that these
> >meters
> >are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to have a
> >reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and PTO
> >speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the original part
> >number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's.
> >
> >And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not as NOS.
> >It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New Factory
> >Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the
> >factory.
> >
> >
> >I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner meters,
> >modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
> >wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they might be
> >completely new factory standard product with associated factory warranties,
> >etc.
> >
> >The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is
> >important
> >information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as advertised; it
> >is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
> >troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not honor their
> >warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect that
> >nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not spelled
> >out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is identified.
> >
> >At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
> >customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal issue.
> >Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or
> >incorrect
> >first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the customers
> >expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
> >received.
> >
> >Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings and
> >disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at fault.
> >
> >Dean A. Van Peursem
> >Snohomish, WA 98290
> >
> >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> >storeroom door
> >
> >
> >www.deerelegacy.com
> >
> >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> >greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
> >Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
> >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> >
> >A couple of things on these speed hour meters.
> >
> >Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous times
> >over the
> >last year or so.
> >
> >First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
> >Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate new.
> >Genuine new
> >old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he wanted
> >to
> >offer a
> >more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be able to
> >disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their original
> >vintage
> >counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe the only
> >hourmeters
> >that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show that
> >even these,
> >over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5 hours.
> >He
> >believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will ever
> >approach
> >anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and install
> >correctly.
> >
> >Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises these
> >meters as New
> >and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone is not
> >satisfied he
> >will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask for any
> >more than
> >that in my book.
> >
> >All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
> >impossible to
> >locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter available
> >today.
> >It's all
> >a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.
> >
> >So that's what I know about this subject
> >
> >Feel free to ask questions if need be
> >
> >Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Greg Stephen
> >The Old Tractor Company
> >Stephen Equipment Company
> >PO Box 709
> >Franktown, CO 80116
> >303-663-5246
> >303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!
> >
> >On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:
> >
> > >Dennis:
> > >
> > >These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD except the
> > >seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and face and
> > >puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for the
> > >respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part number on
> >it
> > >from the 50's, not the subbed number.
> > >
> > >So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters with
> > >modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently
> >licensed
> > >by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware of just
> >the
> > >face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not on the
> > >one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes too.
> > >
> > >These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour Meters that
> >JD
> > >sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and tractor are
> >set
> > >up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read incorrectly
> >on
> > >ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter.
> > >
> > >I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour meter
> >from
> > >JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or do you
> > >spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct.
> > >
> > >I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his eBay
> >ads
> > >for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the
> >description
> > >of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit
> >disgruntled
> > >by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either the
> >removal
> > >or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had
> >received
> >a
> > >refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
> > >impression.
> > >
> > >In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or more on
> > >refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The advantage of
> > >refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained if
> >they
> > >are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can depend on
> >that
> > >very much.
> > >
> > >Dean A. Van Peursem
> > >Snohomish, WA 98290
> > >
> > >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> > >storeroom door
> > >
> > >
> > >www.deerelegacy.com
> > >
> > >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
> >hndeere-
> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> > >Cotton Family
> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
> > >To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
> > >Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
> > >
> > >I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
> > >talking...
> > >Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
> > >
> > >On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that are on
> > >eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder if
> > >Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
> > >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
> > >
> > >Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
> >hndeere-
> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
> > >Of Kenneth Jones
> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
> > >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> > >Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
> > >
> > >Dennis
> > >
> > >      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "
> > >
> > >      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
> > >
> > >Ken Jones
> > >
> > >Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >Dennis,
> > >
> > >Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope ass is
> > >weel now !!
> > >
> > >
> > >Ken Jones
> > >
> > >Cotton Family wrote:
> > >Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have had
> > >problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
> > >
> > >Dennis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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