[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

Bruce Mahr martian at winco.net
Fri Mar 11 15:54:34 PST 2005


Dana: I agree with you!

Bruce Mahr

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Almost-Running Deere" <deereman1000 at hotmail.com>
To: <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 4:15 PM
Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters


> >From Greg's comment I think he said the offer was "your money back"  so 
> >that
> is pretty good.  Most warrenty on parts are 90 days any ways which in not 
> much.  In the old tractor business I sort of assume there is no such thing 
> as a warrenty and in most cases tI never even think of it (likely my 
> problem).  Maybe I am used to poor service and shoddy dealsl but when I 
> buy something "new" for a 40 year old tractor and I aware that it isn't 
> NOS.  If the fellow stands behind the part he is selling that may be as 
> good as it gets.  If I want NOS I will pay for it ( I typically don't) and 
> know that the new part is likely inferior to the part 40 years ago.
>
> Not trying to argue either just my opinion
>
> Dana
> SE PA
>
>>From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>>Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing 
>>list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>To: "'Antique John Deere mailing 
>>list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:07:53 -0800
>>
>>Dana:
>>
>>I think you are comparing apples and oranges.  When you receive that "New"
>>starter from Deere and it is defective, Deere will stand behind that with
>>whatever warranty they offer. However, a "New" Speed Hour meter that has 
>>had
>>the Borg Warner original tag removed (partially torn off in my case) and
>>also has been modified by a third party is now only supported by the 
>>seller
>>who did the modifications. I also think Borg Warner would take great issue
>>with it being called "New" from their perspective. All warranties and
>>support has to be assumed by the seller in this case, unless previous
>>arrangements have been made with the original manufacturer of the meter. .
>>
>>I'm sure JD would take issue with a JD Dealer making unauthorized
>>modifications to their "New" and warranted starter. I am 100% sure that
>>those unauthorized modifications would void JD's warranty and the only
>>warranty for the customer would have to be supplied by the dealer. Which 
>>is
>>fine as long as the customer is so notified.
>>
>>I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here. I'm only stating that the
>>seller could be more forthcoming by more accurately defining the modified
>>product and where the warranty and support is going to come from.
>>
>>"New" to me implies manufacturer's warranty.
>>
>>Dean A. Van Peursem
>>Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>>storeroom door
>>
>>
>>www.deerelegacy.com
>>
>>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>>Almost-Running Deere
>>Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:28 AM
>>To: antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>>
>>I think we all know that New Old stock (NOS) is different from new which 
>>is
>>different rebuilt.  New correctly describes it in my opinion.  I can buy a
>>new starter from Deere but it isn't NOS.
>>
>>my opinion
>>
>>Dana
>>SE PA
>>
>> >From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>> >Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing
>> >list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >To: "'Antique John Deere mailing
>> >list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>> >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:17:09 -0800
>> >
>> >Greg:
>> >
>> >After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that these
>> >meters
>> >are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to have
>>a
>> >reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and PTO
>> >speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the original
>>part
>> >number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's.
>> >
>> >And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not as
>>NOS.
>> >It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New Factory
>> >Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the
>> >factory.
>> >
>> >
>> >I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner meters,
>> >modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
>> >wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they might
>>be
>> >completely new factory standard product with associated factory
>>warranties,
>> >etc.
>> >
>> >The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is
>> >important
>> >information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as advertised;
>>it
>> >is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
>> >troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not honor
>>their
>> >warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect 
>> >that
>> >nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not
>>spelled
>> >out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is 
>> >identified.
>> >
>> >At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
>> >customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal 
>> >issue.
>> >Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or
>> >incorrect
>> >first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the
>>customers
>> >expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
>> >received.
>> >
>> >Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings and
>> >disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at
>>fault.
>> >
>> >Dean A. Van Peursem
>> >Snohomish, WA 98290
>> >
>> >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>> >storeroom door
>> >
>> >
>> >www.deerelegacy.com
>> >
>> >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf 
>> >Of
>> >greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
>> >Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
>> >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>> >
>> >A couple of things on these speed hour meters.
>> >
>> >Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous
>>times
>> >over the
>> >last year or so.
>> >
>> >First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
>> >Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate new.
>> >Genuine new
>> >old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he 
>> >wanted
>> >to
>> >offer a
>> >more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be able
>>to
>> >disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their original
>> >vintage
>> >counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe the
>>only
>> >hourmeters
>> >that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show 
>> >that
>> >even these,
>> >over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5
>>hours.
>> >He
>> >believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will 
>> >ever
>> >approach
>> >anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and
>>install
>> >correctly.
>> >
>> >Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises these
>> >meters as New
>> >and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone is 
>> >not
>> >satisfied he
>> >will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask for
>>any
>> >more than
>> >that in my book.
>> >
>> >All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
>> >impossible to
>> >locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter available
>> >today.
>> >It's all
>> >a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.
>> >
>> >So that's what I know about this subject
>> >
>> >Feel free to ask questions if need be
>> >
>> >Greg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Greg Stephen
>> >The Old Tractor Company
>> >Stephen Equipment Company
>> >PO Box 709
>> >Franktown, CO 80116
>> >303-663-5246
>> >303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!
>> >
>> >On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:
>> >
>> > >Dennis:
>> > >
>> > >These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD except 
>> > >the
>> > >seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and face
>>and
>> > >puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for the
>> > >respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part number 
>> > >on
>> >it
>> > >from the 50's, not the subbed number.
>> > >
>> > >So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters 
>> > >with
>> > >modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently
>> >licensed
>> > >by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware of
>>just
>> >the
>> > >face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not on
>>the
>> > >one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes 
>> > >too.
>> > >
>> > >These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour Meters
>>that
>> >JD
>> > >sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and tractor 
>> > >are
>> >set
>> > >up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read 
>> > >incorrectly
>> >on
>> > >ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter.
>> > >
>> > >I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour 
>> > >meter
>> >from
>> > >JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or do
>>you
>> > >spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct.
>> > >
>> > >I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his 
>> > >eBay
>> >ads
>> > >for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the
>> >description
>> > >of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit
>> >disgruntled
>> > >by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either the
>> >removal
>> > >or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had
>> >received
>> >a
>> > >refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
>> > >impression.
>> > >
>> > >In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or more 
>> > >on
>> > >refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The advantage 
>> > >of
>> > >refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained if
>> >they
>> > >are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can depend 
>> > >on
>> >that
>> > >very much.
>> > >
>> > >Dean A. Van Peursem
>> > >Snohomish, WA 98290
>> > >
>> > >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>> > >storeroom door
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >www.deerelegacy.com
>> > >
>> > >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
>> >hndeere-
>> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>> > >Cotton Family
>> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
>> > >To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
>> > >Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
>> > >
>> > >I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
>> > >talking...
>> > >Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
>> > >
>> > >On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that are on
>> > >eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder if
>> > >Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
>> > >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> >
>> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
>> >hndeere-
>> >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>> > >Of Kenneth Jones
>> > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
>> > >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>> > >Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "
>> > >
>> > >      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
>> > >
>> > >Ken Jones
>> > >
>> > >Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >Dennis,
>> > >
>> > >Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope ass 
>> > >is
>> > >weel now !!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Ken Jones
>> > >
>> > >Cotton Family wrote:
>> > >Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have had
>> > >problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
>> > >
>> > >Dennis
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
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>> > >
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