[AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
Robert M. Massengale
ltcmikem at ktc.com
Sun Mar 6 09:58:17 PST 2005
Dean -
I agree with your bottom line... "It just isn't right". And for my
money, "It just isn't right" on both sides of the issue. "Right" pricing
for a product used to have some pretty good guidelines that were
called "fair & reasonable"... or was that the guideline for
determining profit on a product? Either way, "fair & reasonable"
sure doesn't appear to be a play in Deere's marketing practices on
the CD's or paper manuals.
Mike
Robert M. Massengale
Fredericksburg, Tecas 78624
> Ron:
>
> It is my understanding that JD hired a consultant who recommended the
> discontinuance of the Vintage CD's. I can almost see the paragraph
> that was written.
>
> "DB 1293 JD has $1400 (at recommended new prices) worth of Parts
> Catalogs on it and you are selling it for $75.00. If you discontinue
> the CD's, look at how much more money you can make selling CD's per
> Parts Catalog at a minimum of $30 each with some higher priced. Paper
> manuals can be priced even higher."
>
> I question whether any consideration was given to whether we would be
> willing to pay it or could afford to. Or how much extra labor was
> required to make custom CD's "to order" rather than sell a standard
> product that could be made in volume. Almost reminds me of a "make
> work" situation. Then I suppose the legal staff was increased to
> police the homemade copies that became prevalent due to JD's
> extraordinarily high prices. Seems like a circular effort to me.
>
> I too am able to distinguish the difference between making a copy for
> a friend to use at no cost vs making copies for commercial sale. Maybe
> that is called "situational ethics". Don't know for sure.
>
> But, having spent a career in a business where we had to protect our
> intellection property, I sure can understand the manufacturer's point
> of view. On a more personal basis in this situation, I have spent the
> $75 each to get originals when they were still for sale. It bothers me
> a bit to see these unauthorized copies sold for much less than the
> originals w/o compensation to the originator and it also degrades the
> value of my original investment. Bottom line is I fall on the side of:
>
> "It just isn't right"
>
> Dean A. Van Peursem
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
> I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> storeroom door
>
>
> www.deerelegacy.com
>
> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
> Of Ronald L. Cook Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:43 PM To: Antique
> John Deere mailing list Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
>
> Dean,
> If you took a look at my bank account you would certainly say, "Ron
> just isn't good at business". However, if I had a product that I
> could promote and supply that is in demand, I might raise the price a
> little.
> Just a little. Not enough to upset the newcomers or the old
> customers. I'll be darned if I would just up and quit the product.
> The market has shown the demand for the Vintage CD's. They always go
> for more than Deere sold them for. Even the copies. Screwy, isn't
> it?
> I guess if I had my "druthers", I would like the original hard copy
> of a manual and a copy on the computer. There is something I just
> like about flipping back and forth between pages. Seems easier to
> find things. Now, printing a copy to take in the shop and not worry
> about the greasy fingerprints, is very handy. I do that. I don't
> have adobe ver 7, but I do use ver 6. It is pretty good.
>
> Ron Cook
> Salix, IA
>
>
> Dean VP wrote:
>
> > Ron:
> >
> > JD's pricing sure has created the opportunity. Discontinuing selling
> > the Vintage CD's sure did.
> >
> > I tended to prefer the paper manuals until I became familiar with
> > using
> the
> > CD's. Now I prefer the CD's as I find the section I want, print it
> > out and take it to the shop and I don't care if I get the pages all
> > greasy. Adobe Reader ver 6 and 7 sure have improved the access to
> > the data on these
> CD's.
> >
> >
> > Dean A. Van Peursem
> > Snohomish, WA 98290
> >
> > I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> > storeroom door
> >
> >
> > www.deerelegacy.com
> >
> > http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On
> > Behalf Of Ronald L. Cook Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:34 AM To:
> > Antique John Deere mailing list Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans
> > on CD
> >
> > I think Deere's pricing has caused it. Somehow it seems to always
> > end up that the big buck people get the best no matter what the
> > hobby is because they can afford it. Deere no longer caters to the
> > masses. They want the doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs with expo
> > class stuff. My personal tastes are against that "expo" class. I
> > just can't see a "wet look, chrome stacked, armor-all tires" tractor
> > making sense and really do not like them. I have watched people
> > trying to start their beautiful open fan-shafted Model A and it was
> > apparent they had never been involved with any kind of engine, let
> > alone a tractor. They just paid for a trophey winning restoration.
> > Made me bust out laughing. I am not trying to insult anyone here.
> > Just stating my opinion. However, I am probably a minority. The
> > "working class" tractors probably do not cost as much to end up
> > with. It is just economics. To me, buying a CD copy for cheap is
> > not much different than borrowing someone's manual to use and
> > probably better than IT manuals. I do prefer Deere's paper manuals
> > and original if I can get them but really see nothing wrong with
> > offering a substitute. It will not be as good a quality and will
> > seek its own level and trying to work from some thing stored on a
> > computer will for sure drive you nuts.
> >
> > Ron Cook
> > Salix, IA
> >
> > Dean VP wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Well, I wondered how long it was going to take before someone tried
> >>this. Seller on eBay has scanned JD's Paper manuals and is now
> >>selling them on eBay. Seller has 4 different scanned CD's on now.
> >>
> >>Look at eBay auction: 3879451357
> >>
> >>Then click on "All Items for sale by this seller"
> >>
> >>I have mixed emotions about this. At one time I was told that JD's
> >>paper manuals are not copyrighted. If that is true then I see no
> >>reason why this is illegal unless JD already has the same manual on
> >>CD this is
> >
> > copyrighted.
> >
> >>But..... JD still sells these CD versions of the paper manuals on a
> >>custom basis. I've not purchased one of the current custom CD's
> >>from JD so I
> >
> > don't
> >
> >>know if their custom CD's are copyrighted or not.
> >>
> >>I have mixed emotions about this practice. Something tells me it is
> >>unethical and maybe even illegal. But JD sure has created a price
> >>umbrella to entice this underground cottage industry.
> >>
> >>What do you guys think?
> >>
> >>Dean A. Van Peursem
> >>Snohomish, WA 98290
> >>
> >>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> >>storeroom door
> >>
> >>
> >>www.deerelegacy.com
> >>
> >>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> >
> >
> >
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