Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

Tom Yasnowski tomyasnowski at hotmail.com
Fri Aug 12 05:53:32 PDT 2005 

Charlie,

There is several steps to make this happen--need seperate tank and heating 
system to warm it up first by running regular diesel, then switch over to 
the veg oil ,then before shutting down switching over tro reg diesel to 
clean the lines.
Tom

>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:36:53 -0400
>
>Ok Tom,
>
>I would think running straight stuff would  make for a messy engine but 
>what do I know?  I'm sure you have researched it.
>
>Charlie
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:06 AM
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>
>
>>Charlie,
>>
>>Thanks--I have been to those sites.  They dont talk much about cleaning 
>>SVO, but foucus more on biodiesel production, which I dont want to do.  I 
>>am thinking about running warmed waste oil thru a filter press after 
>>gravity filtration.  I am also considering giving it the lye treatment to 
>>remove FFA's
>>but not sure if that will be of any benefit when running SVO.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:46 -0400
>>>
>>>Tom the links I just posted (previous message) will tell you how to do 
>>>it.
>>>
>>>Charlie
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
>>><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>>>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:10 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>
>>>
>>>>When my old 1992 Saturn with 170K miles on it finally bites the dust, 
>>>>(It still gets 35 MPG!) I am
>>>>going to get a diesel pickup.  Considering running straight waste 
>>>>vegetable oil thru it.  Till then
>>>>I am researching on way to get the oil extra clean; more than just using 
>>>>filtration. I got a couple sources for the oil, and got some ideas on 
>>>>how to get it really clean.
>>>>Tom
>>>>
>>>>>From: John Wilkens <jwilkens at eoni.com>
>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:03:17 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>The neighbor across the road is making his own biodiesel by processing 
>>>>>waste restaurant cooking oil from town to power his old Mercedes (?) 
>>>>>car and pickup.  Supposedly they run fine.  I've seen his tanks but I 
>>>>>don't know any of the process details.  But.....if everyone in the 
>>>>>valley starts doing this they will run out of waste oil in a hurry!   
>>>>>John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>At 08:13 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>>>>>I agree with Cecil in part; I do think Biodiesel will be the way out 
>>>>>>once they figure out
>>>>>>how to keep it from clouding at lower temps.  The cost of Biodiesel 
>>>>>>today is near what regular diesel is, and the technology is improving 
>>>>>>all the time. Pitt univerity is patenting a way to make it that cut 
>>>>>>the cost considerably and reduces the hazardous waste:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_342262.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If this fuel takes off, look for canola to be the crop of choice as it 
>>>>>>yields much more oil that soybeans: "It contains about 40% oil and 23% 
>>>>>>protein compared to 20 and 40%, respectively, for soybean".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>All in all, I have faith in the enterprising spirit to come up with a 
>>>>>>solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:37 -0400
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Believe what you want, I know folks who have run alcohol in there
>>>>>>>engines and got half the mileage in the vehicle. I have run it in 
>>>>>>>race
>>>>>>>engines and know how much power I lost in them over gasoline as well.
>>>>>>>  In a vehicle you need to dump 40% more alcohol through the 
>>>>>>>injectors to
>>>>>>>achieve a mix that will burn well enough to power a vehicle. Then 
>>>>>>>take
>>>>>>>into account that alcohol in an engine only produces 64% of the HP 
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>gasoline does and you get to see the reality.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Production costs for alcohol DO get government help right now as do 
>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>other "alternative fuels" You are also close to a production point 
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>the lack of transportation costs also keeps the price artificially 
>>>>>>>low.
>>>>>>>As does a lack of demand for alcohol as a fuel. The last 55 gallon 
>>>>>>>drum
>>>>>>>I bought cost me 213.97 + shipping.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/alcohol.htm
>>>>>>>http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=43492
>>>>>>>http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1056&topic=130249&page_no=1
>>>>>>>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Steve W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Jim and Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
>>>>>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production E85 
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>> > economy ratings:
>>>>>>> > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce
>>>>>>>alcohol
>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>> > it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The only
>>>>>>>way
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>> > come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy
>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>> > took to grow the corn.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > You can make the same argument with any energy source - gasoline,
>>>>>>>diesel,
>>>>>>> > electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more energy" 
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>produce
>>>>>>> > it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the
>>>>>>>production,
>>>>>>> > making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it would 
>>>>>>> > be a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap, 
>>>>>>>renewable
>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>> > source, and transforming it into a product that can be transported 
>>>>>>> >  >
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>> > easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or > 
>>>>>>>wood
>>>>>>>(which
>>>>>>> > isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and
>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>> > product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>> > something.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.  
>>>>>>>That
>>>>>>>includes
>>>>>>> > the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of 
>>>>>>>demand),
>>>>>>>and the
>>>>>>> > price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the product.
>>>>>>>There
>>>>>>> > are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much > 
>>>>>>>energy
>>>>>>>to make
>>>>>>> > it, wouldn't it cost more?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Jim
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
>>>>>>>W.
>>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
>>>>>>> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. > 
>>>>>>>Most
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>> > the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and > 
>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>> > sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current
>>>>>>>American
>>>>>>> > "fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
>>>>>>> > materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that
>>>>>>>ethanol
>>>>>>> > is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
>>>>>>> > straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If > 
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>add
>>>>>>> > in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for Bio-diesel 
>>>>>>> >  >
>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>> > will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than it
>>>>>>> > returns, they are both net energy losers.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                    In the wide-open spaces of NE Oregon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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