Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

charlie hill chill8 at cox.net
Fri Aug 12 06:06:54 PDT 2005 

Ah, kind of like running an Allis WC on Kerosene.  Sounds like a good plan 
if you can make it work.  I doubt if the truck manufacturer will  honor the 
warranty so I guess you are planning to buy a used diesel pickup?  The 
Dodge's with the Cummins might be a good choice.  I bet some of those 
Cummins engines have been set up for 'multi-fuel" by the military.

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Yasnowski" <tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $


> Charlie,
>
> There is several steps to make this happen--need seperate tank and heating 
> system to warm it up first by running regular diesel, then switch over to 
> the veg oil ,then before shutting down switching over tro reg diesel to 
> clean the lines.
> Tom
>
>>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:36:53 -0400
>>
>>Ok Tom,
>>
>>I would think running straight stuff would  make for a messy engine but 
>>what do I know?  I'm sure you have researched it.
>>
>>Charlie
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
>><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:06 AM
>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>
>>
>>>Charlie,
>>>
>>>Thanks--I have been to those sites.  They dont talk much about cleaning 
>>>SVO, but foucus more on biodiesel production, which I dont want to do.  I 
>>>am thinking about running warmed waste oil thru a filter press after 
>>>gravity filtration.  I am also considering giving it the lye treatment to 
>>>remove FFA's
>>>but not sure if that will be of any benefit when running SVO.
>>>
>>>Tom
>>>
>>>>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:39:46 -0400
>>>>
>>>>Tom the links I just posted (previous message) will tell you how to do 
>>>>it.
>>>>
>>>>Charlie
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
>>>><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>>>>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:10 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>When my old 1992 Saturn with 170K miles on it finally bites the dust, 
>>>>>(It still gets 35 MPG!) I am
>>>>>going to get a diesel pickup.  Considering running straight waste 
>>>>>vegetable oil thru it.  Till then
>>>>>I am researching on way to get the oil extra clean; more than just 
>>>>>using filtration. I got a couple sources for the oil, and got some 
>>>>>ideas on how to get it really clean.
>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: John Wilkens <jwilkens at eoni.com>
>>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:03:17 -0700
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The neighbor across the road is making his own biodiesel by processing 
>>>>>>waste restaurant cooking oil from town to power his old Mercedes (?) 
>>>>>>car and pickup.  Supposedly they run fine.  I've seen his tanks but I 
>>>>>>don't know any of the process details.  But.....if everyone in the 
>>>>>>valley starts doing this they will run out of waste oil in a hurry! 
>>>>>>John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At 08:13 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>>>>>>I agree with Cecil in part; I do think Biodiesel will be the way out 
>>>>>>>once they figure out
>>>>>>>how to keep it from clouding at lower temps.  The cost of Biodiesel 
>>>>>>>today is near what regular diesel is, and the technology is improving 
>>>>>>>all the time. Pitt univerity is patenting a way to make it that cut 
>>>>>>>the cost considerably and reduces the hazardous waste:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_342262.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If this fuel takes off, look for canola to be the crop of choice as 
>>>>>>>it yields much more oil that soybeans: "It contains about 40% oil and 
>>>>>>>23% protein compared to 20 and 40%, respectively, for soybean".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All in all, I have faith in the enterprising spirit to come up with a 
>>>>>>>solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:37 -0400
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Believe what you want, I know folks who have run alcohol in there
>>>>>>>>engines and got half the mileage in the vehicle. I have run it in 
>>>>>>>>race
>>>>>>>>engines and know how much power I lost in them over gasoline as 
>>>>>>>>well.
>>>>>>>>  In a vehicle you need to dump 40% more alcohol through the 
>>>>>>>> injectors to
>>>>>>>>achieve a mix that will burn well enough to power a vehicle. Then 
>>>>>>>>take
>>>>>>>>into account that alcohol in an engine only produces 64% of the HP 
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>gasoline does and you get to see the reality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Production costs for alcohol DO get government help right now as do 
>>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>>other "alternative fuels" You are also close to a production point 
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>the lack of transportation costs also keeps the price artificially 
>>>>>>>>low.
>>>>>>>>As does a lack of demand for alcohol as a fuel. The last 55 gallon 
>>>>>>>>drum
>>>>>>>>I bought cost me 213.97 + shipping.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/alcohol.htm
>>>>>>>>http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=43492
>>>>>>>>http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1056&topic=130249&page_no=1
>>>>>>>>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Steve W.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Jim and Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
>>>>>>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>>>>>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:13 AM
>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production E85
>>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>>> > economy ratings:
>>>>>>>> > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce
>>>>>>>>alcohol
>>>>>>>>than
>>>>>>>> > it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The only
>>>>>>>>way
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>> > come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>> > took to grow the corn.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > You can make the same argument with any energy source - gasoline,
>>>>>>>>diesel,
>>>>>>>> > electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more energy" 
>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>>produce
>>>>>>>> > it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the
>>>>>>>>production,
>>>>>>>> > making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it would 
>>>>>>>> > be a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap,
>>>>>>>>renewable
>>>>>>>>fuel
>>>>>>>> > source, and transforming it into a product that can be 
>>>>>>>> > transported >
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>> > easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or >
>>>>>>>>wood
>>>>>>>>(which
>>>>>>>> > isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and
>>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>> > product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you
>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>> > something.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.
>>>>>>>>That
>>>>>>>>includes
>>>>>>>> > the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of
>>>>>>>>demand),
>>>>>>>>and the
>>>>>>>> > price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the 
>>>>>>>> > product.
>>>>>>>>There
>>>>>>>> > are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much >
>>>>>>>>energy
>>>>>>>>to make
>>>>>>>> > it, wouldn't it cost more?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Jim
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve
>>>>>>>>W.
>>>>>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
>>>>>>>> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. >
>>>>>>>>Most
>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>> > the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and >
>>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>>> > sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current
>>>>>>>>American
>>>>>>>> > "fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
>>>>>>>> > materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that
>>>>>>>>ethanol
>>>>>>>> > is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
>>>>>>>> > straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If 
>>>>>>>> >  >
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>add
>>>>>>>> > in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for 
>>>>>>>> > Bio-diesel >
>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>> > will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than 
>>>>>>>> > it
>>>>>>>> > returns, they are both net energy losers.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > AT mailing list
>>>>>>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > AT mailing list
>>>>>>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>AT mailing list
>>>>>>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>AT mailing list
>>>>>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                    In the wide-open spaces of NE Oregon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>AT mailing list
>>>>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>AT mailing list
>>>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.7/70 - Release Date: 
>>>>>8/11/2005
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>AT mailing list
>>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>AT mailing list
>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.7/70 - Release Date: 8/11/2005
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>AT mailing list
>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.7/70 - Release Date: 8/11/2005
>
>

More information about the AT mailing list