Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

Fri Aug 12 04:10:09 PDT 2005

When my old 1992 Saturn with 170K miles on it finally bites the dust, (It 
still gets 35 MPG!) I am
going to get a diesel pickup.  Considering running straight waste vegetable 
oil thru it.  Till then
I am researching on way to get the oil extra clean; more than just using 
filtration. I got a couple sources for the oil, and got some ideas on how to 
get it really clean.
Tom

>From: John Wilkens <jwilkens at eoni.com>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:03:17 -0700
>
>The neighbor across the road is making his own biodiesel by processing 
>waste restaurant cooking oil from town to power his old Mercedes (?) car 
>and pickup.  Supposedly they run fine.  I've seen his tanks but I don't 
>know any of the process details.  But.....if everyone in the valley starts 
>doing this they will run out of waste oil in a hurry!   John
>
>
>
>At 08:13 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>I agree with Cecil in part; I do think Biodiesel will be the way out once 
>>they figure out
>>how to keep it from clouding at lower temps.  The cost of Biodiesel today 
>>is near what regular diesel is, and the technology is improving all the 
>>time. Pitt univerity is patenting a way to make it that cut the cost 
>>considerably and reduces the hazardous waste:
>>
>>http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_342262.html
>>
>>If this fuel takes off, look for canola to be the crop of choice as it 
>>yields much more oil that soybeans: "It contains about 40% oil and 23% 
>>protein compared to 20 and 40%, respectively, for soybean".
>>
>>All in all, I have faith in the enterprising spirit to come up with a 
>>solution.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>>From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:43:37 -0400
>>>
>>>Believe what you want, I know folks who have run alcohol in there
>>>engines and got half the mileage in the vehicle. I have run it in race
>>>engines and know how much power I lost in them over gasoline as well.
>>>  In a vehicle you need to dump 40% more alcohol through the injectors to
>>>achieve a mix that will burn well enough to power a vehicle. Then take
>>>into account that alcohol in an engine only produces 64% of the HP that
>>>gasoline does and you get to see the reality.
>>>
>>>Production costs for alcohol DO get government help right now as do any
>>>other "alternative fuels" You are also close to a production point and
>>>the lack of transportation costs also keeps the price artificially low.
>>>As does a lack of demand for alcohol as a fuel. The last 55 gallon drum
>>>I bought cost me 213.97 + shipping.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/alcohol.htm
>>>http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=43492
>>>http://www.pennsylvaniagasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1056&topic=130249&page_no=1
>>>http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/July05/ethanol.toocostly.ssl.html
>>>
>>>Steve W.
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Jim and Lyn Evans" <jevans at evanstoys.com>
>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:13 AM
>>>Subject: RE: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>>
>>>
>>> > I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production E85 fuel
>>> > economy ratings:
>>> > http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml
>>> >
>>> > I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce alcohol
>>>than
>>> > it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The only way
>>>you
>>> > come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy that
>>>it
>>> > took to grow the corn.
>>> >
>>> > You can make the same argument with any energy source - gasoline,
>>>diesel,
>>> > electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more energy" to
>>>produce
>>> > it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the
>>>production,
>>> > making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it would be a
>>>
>>> > perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap, renewable
>>>fuel
>>> > source, and transforming it into a product that can be transported and
>>> > easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or wood
>>>(which
>>> > isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and create
>>>a
>>> > product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you have
>>> > something.
>>> >
>>> > The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.  That
>>>includes
>>> > the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of demand),
>>>and the
>>> > price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the product.
>>>There
>>> > are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much energy
>>>to make
>>> > it, wouldn't it cost more?
>>> >
>>> > Jim
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve W.
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
>>> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> > Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $
>>> >
>>> > Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. Most
>>>of
>>> > the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and then
>>> > sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current American
>>> > "fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
>>> > materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that
>>>ethanol
>>> > is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
>>> > straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If you
>>>add
>>> > in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for Bio-diesel you
>>> > will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than it
>>> > returns, they are both net energy losers.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AT mailing list
>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AT mailing list
>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>AT mailing list
>>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>AT mailing list
>>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
>                    In the wide-open spaces of NE Oregon
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AT mailing list
>http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at