Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

[Jim and Lyn Evans]

 I think real mileage loss is around 25%.  Here are production E85 fuel
economy ratings:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml

I don't buy the argument that it takes more energy to produce alcohol than
it returns.  That is propaganda from the oil companies.  The only way you
come up with that much energy is if you include the solar energy that it
took to grow the corn.

You can make the same argument with any energy source - gasoline, diesel,
electricity, hydrogen, etc.  In all cases, it takes "more energy" to produce
it than it returns.  There are always inefficiencies in the production,
making the return less than 100%.  If there wasn't, then it would be a
perpetual motion machine.  The secret is finding a cheap, renewable fuel
source, and transforming it into a product that can be transported and
easily used by consumers.  If you can use natural gas, coal, or wood (which
isn't handy to use directly in a car) and a bushel of corn and create a
product that can be easily handled and burned in a car, then you have
something.

The alcohol plants here are making it for about $1.29/gallon.  That includes
the cost of the corn (which is fairly high here because of demand), and the
price of the natural gas (expensive) they use to make the product.  There
are no government subsidies in that cost.  If it took so much energy to make
it, wouldn't it cost more?

Jim



-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Steve W.
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:30 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: Alt fuels was Re: [AT] Gasoline $

Real simple. Those third world countries have VERY CHEAP labor. Most of
the fuel they produce is made in small quantities by locals and then
sold locally. In order to produce enough to fuel the current American
"fleet" you would need to produce more alcohol than we have the
materials for production. Also I don't know how you figure that ethanol
is so cheap. It isn't. Also it is a REAL mileage killer when run
straight in an engine. You lose half your mileage running it. If you add
in ALL the costs of production for both Alcohol and for Bio-diesel you
will also find out that it takes MORE energy to produce it than it
returns, they are both net energy losers.



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