[AT] Shop thoughts (was)Air Lines

[Dean VP]

Farmer:

I am a bit concerned that you are over reacting here a bit. I don't want to
try to characterize any list members shop as I haven't seen very many. What
works for them is fine with me. But I think a wrong impression can be gained
by the characterization that those of us who use more than rubber hose in
our air lines have extravagant shops and have thrown money foolishly into
our shops is a bit off the edge, IMHO. 

I've seen a very good operating air compressor system made from a portable
compressor, a coil of copper tubing and one water filter. That didn't cost
very much and was a bit cumbersome. But it worked quite well.

I chose to use black pipe in my installation. Black pipe isn't all that
expensive. Black pipe fittings are not that expensive. Valves are expensive
so I bought them at Harbor freight to save a buck. 1/2" and 3/4" pipe dies
are not very expensive. I threaded the ends of many different length black
pipes by hand to get the custom installation I wanted. Lots of labor but it
was my labor so it wasn't so expensive. I need a raise!

The whole reason for this setup was to get multiple outlets in the shop at
minimal expense but also have the lines set up so that I could use the
sandblaster and paint gun and all other accessories w/o the problem of
moisture. The whole system was designed around the critical need of
sandblasting and painting. So I spent a few extra bucks to achieve that. And
let me make it clear, not any more than was necessary. 

Now anyone who has done any sandblasting knows that there are huge volume of
air issues and if moisture gets into the air, the sand blaster will plug up.
That is a terribly frustrating situation as it takes a long time to clear
and is something that is nothing more than a PITA when doing sandblasting
which I don't like doing at all. The choice I made was to do the
sandblasting myself rather than outsource it at a much higher cost. Moisture
in sprayed paint is a problem I don't need to go into here. I haven't done
that much high quality painting. 

If I were doing a high volume of sand blasting I would farm it out since
sandblasting is not a fun job and big equipment is really required to do the
job right. I would never consider paying for the really big equipment to do
professional level sand blasting. I can do small parts quite easily but
bigger stuff just takes a lot of time and sand. 

I don't do professional restorations, I don't do commercial work, I don't
have a professional shop or even one that is all that well organized or
equipped. And I don't do all that good of work. But it has worked for me so
far. Most of my tools are those I have owned since I was a teenager. I know
because I marked them when I was doing my first work off the farm. My
primary work bench is one I made myself over 30 years ago and has been
transported from shop to shop. Yes, I made it heavy and strong then, for a
few extra bucks, and it has served me well. The small initial extra
investment has paid for itself many times over. My welding tools, gas and
arc, were bought used at bargain prices. If anyone asks me what tools are
needed to restore antique tractors, my first recommendation is an acetylene
welding outfit. Not to weld with but to heat with. Refilling the tanks costs
more than what I paid for the whole gas welding system.

So the bottom line is one needs to be careful about characterizing others
shop setups as extravagant when they really aren't. There are times when I
think we can be penny wise and pound foolish. Or another way of saying the
same thing "Dollar Bills may be falling out of our back pocket while we are
picking up pennies off the floor".  In my mind "Return on Investment" has
got to be considered rather than just lowest possible initial cost.

I have no intention of trying to work on antique equipment with a hammer, a
pliers and a vice grip. And in most cases one could probably get by with
those tools. But why????  I'm not into self abuse. 

There are some on the list that are trying to learn how to set up their
shops and learn what tools are really needed in this antique tractor hobby.
I sure was able to get that kind of insight from fellow members on this list
many years ago. Sure there were wide variances in what list members were
using and recommended.  I needed to sort that out to determine what was
going to work for me. So a full spectrum of info is needed to get the wide
angle picture. So what works for me or you may not be appropriate for
others. I don't consider my system any better or worse than anyone else's.
It happens to be what I thought was needed. Right or wrong. However, I have
learned a bit about what has worked and what hasn't worked for me, and
therefore I think it appropriate to share that knowledge. Somebody might
find it useful. 

Now the real big issue to day is do I try to repair that 50' of air hose
that has just sprung a leak or buy a new one. Extravagant shops have to
really contemplate these issues. 


Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
storeroom door 


www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Indiana Robinson
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:55 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: [AT] Shop thoughts (was)Air Lines

	This thread has taken an interesting turn... All of a sudden it all
seems to be about 
huge commercial or near commercial shops and what is needed in them. When I
posted that I 
had not found any problems using common air hose to get air around the shop
I was not 
thinking that nobody should use anything else or that no one should plan or
dream for 
their ultimate dream shop. Rather I was thinking that here is a list of
several hundred 
guys (and maybe a few gals) that have an interest in old tractors and in
some cases have 
very limited shop facilities and limited funds. Sometimes I tend to forget
in my own 
tight cash situation just how much money some of you guys have to throw at
the hobby and 
how casually you spend hundreds of dollars on extra toys. The dozen email
list I own are 
all oriented toward "the little guy" and the frugal. My mind just works that
way all of 
the time. When I try to say something hopefully helpful it will almost
always be based on 
spending the least amount of money to accomplish the goal at hand in a
satisfactory 
manner. When I discuss shop things I am really talking to the probably 80%
of the members 
of this list who have the more limited shops to work in.
	There is a reason that Tim Allen's character Tim Taylor become so
well known. It is a 
"guy" thing with an awful lot of guys. "More is always better", "bigger is
always 
better", "more power is always better" and so on. That thought process is
fine if they 
can afford it but the problem of sorts comes when that thought process is
espoused or 
assumed to be for everybody.
	I tend to be an oddball...   :-)   I love to see guys shops of all
sizes. I am not all 
that impressed by the big huge shops that have just had $$$ tossed at them.
One shop that 
should impress anybody is George Willer's. It is disgustingly well organized
and complete 
but he hasn't just tossed money at it.  Larry Goss is another with an
organized shop. I 
would about kill to be organized... The "Dotson Gang" do not keep "flashy"
shops but they 
do some of the finest work I have seen. I get impressed when I see good work
coming out 
of a very simple shop or a very crude building. One of my ongoing fears is
of us turning 
even one new antique tractor guy off on the hobby because we convey a tone
of "if you 
don't have "x" or "y" to work with then you have no business in our hobby.
	Some of you know that I spent 20 years as a shoemaker / cobbler /
cordwainer / shoe 
service technician (you pick a name). There was a fellow named Roy Sutton
who became the 
one true giant in that industry who bought out almost everybody else in the
shoe repair 
machinery industry. Roy started out in the depression working on the
sidewalk. His tool 
kit consisted of an old claw hammer, a couple of knives "borrowed" from his
mother's 
kitchen, an ice pick and some pieces of broken glass which he used to scrape
finish the 
sole edges. He bought a large box of used shoes and had to scramble to
borrow $5 to pay 
for them when they arrived COD. He carefully repaired all of them and began
selling them. 
>From that start he became the giant. That impresses me.
	There are likely a few on this list that would be embarrassed to
have to work out of my 
shop but it has served me well for a long time. Its biggest failing is my
lack of time 
and organized work habits. Too often I roll up to the shop with a tractor
and implement 
and make some rushed repair and head back to the field leaving tools and
scraps in a pile 
to be put away later, after all the rain is coming quickly. That and a lack
of space to 
put all of the "stuff" that shouldn't be in there in the first place.   ;-)

	I guess I have only a passing interest in hearing from guys that are
doing 
"professional" restorations or the guys with the big huge complete shops
doing big 
things. I prefer hearing from guys that are solving problems the best they
can with 
things the average list member has at hand to work with. The younger guys
with a table, a 
vice and a small box of tools are the future of this hobby (I hope)...

-- 
"farmer", Esquire
At Hewick Midwest
      Wealth beyond belief, just no money...

Paternal Robinson's here by way of Norway (Clan Gunn), Scottish Highlands,
Cleasby Yorkshire England, Virginia, Kentucky then Indiana. In America 100 
years 
before the revolution.


Francis Robinson
Central Indiana USA
robinson at svs.net

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