[AT] A-C Oil Filters

Sat Apr 10 10:15:37 PDT 2004

    To clear up the question on the A-C oil filters it should
be known that there is a built in flow restrictor in the top of
the steel tube that the filter fits over. The top of this tube
is swaged down at the top for a calibrated restriction to
reduce the flow and keep good flow to the engine bearings.
    Some tractors have had this tube replaced by a straight
piece of tubing and not swaged thereby allowing too much oil to
flow through the filter. Some of them are rusted at the top
giving a larger hole.
    The proper name is not an oil filter, but a "sludge trap".

                        Gene


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Holtzer <rholtzer at earthlink.net>
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number


: These old non-full flow systems usually have a restriction
somewhere in the
: flow path -- they didn't depend on the filter for creating
pressure to the
: engine.  At least this has been the case in several systems
I've seen over
: the years.  For example, the old flat-head Fords had a
drilled bolt that
: metered flow through the by-pass line.  Farmall has a
metering hole in the
: central bolt that holds the filter housing in place.   On the
other hand,
: I've had little exposure to "rag" filter systems -- are they
different?  I
: will look more closely at the Cletrac next time I change the
filter.  It
: has a cloth filter that fits over a post as I recall.
:
: Bob Holtzer
:
: At 10:32 AM 4/10/2004 -0400, you wrote:
: >Rob,  I'm starting to understand your arguement.  IF the
flow to the mains
: >comes off of the pump ahead of the filter like the flow to
the valve train
: >does ( I can't find that in the book and haven't gone out
and checked mine
: >over) then ALL of the oil that drains out of the filter goes
directly to the
: >sump.  IF that is the case then I agree that the restriction
caused by the
: >rag filter prevents too much oil from flowing back to the
sump and keeps
: >part of the flow under presure and going to the engine
bearings.
: >
: >I was thinking that the flow to the bearings came off the
filter outlet but
: >maybe not.
: >
: >Charlie
: >----- Original Message -----
: >From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
: >To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
: >Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 3:00 AM
: >Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
: >
: >
: > > Rob,  I wasn't trying to say you were wrong.  Just trying
to understand
: >what
: > > you were saying.  I'm still not sure I understand how
this works.  I'm
: >going
: > > to have to look at the oil piping a bit more I guess.
BTW I only use the
: > > real rag stuffed filters anyway.
: > >
: > > Charlie
: > > ----- Original Message -----
: > > From: "Rob Wilson" <rowilson at infinet.com>
: > > To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
: ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
: > > Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 1:01 AM
: > > Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
: > >
: > >
: > > > Charlie,
: > > >   All the information I have tells me that these
engines are bypass
: > > filtered
: > > > engines and if the filter has no backpressure then all
the oil goes to
: >the
: > > > filter and not the engine. Here's a quote from one of
the guys on the
: >A-C
: > > > page. I personally don't care what you or anyone else
wants to use as
: > > > a filter to each his own. I'm merely offering
information to save you a
: > > > few bucks.
: > > >
: > > >
: > > > The B (and some others like it) has a bypass type of
lubrication system.
: > > It
: > > > is NOT like the typical full flow systems used on
modern automobiles.
: >With
: > > a
: > > > bypass system, about 15% (at least on the B) of the oil
pump flow is
: >sent
: > > > directly to the sump via the oil filter. That 15% does
not go to the
: > > > bearings. There are too basic parallel paths to the
sump from the pump.
: > > One
: > > > is through the bearings and the other is through the
filter, assuming
: >the
: > > > relief valve is not discharging. Depending on the
details of the
: > > > restrictions in the flow path through the filter, the
filter resistance
: > > > itself can have an effect on the flow quantity through
this bypass path.
: > > If
: > > > the filter resistance is less than designed for by the
OEM (Allis
: > > Chalmers),
: > > > then a greater flow will be bypassed to the sump than
originally
: >intended.
: > > > Since the pump flow is constant for any given engine
speed, that means
: > > less
: > > > will be sent to the bearings. This situation results in
a lower oil
: > > pressure
: > > > being observed at the pump discharge and recorded by
the pressure gage.
: > > That
: > > > is the exactly the case with the newer design NAPA 1101
filter. It has a
: > > > lower filter resistance than AC designed for and is
much more like a
: > > > low-resistance full flow filter that one would see on
an automobile.
: >Dumb
: > > > design change by WIX (manufacturer of filters marketed
under the NAPA
: > > brand
: > > > name).
: > > >
: > > > Rob
: > > >
: > > > ----- Original Message -----
: > > > From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
: > > > To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
: > > <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
: > > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:15 PM
: > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
: > > >
: > > >
: > > > > Rob,  I have a reproduction of a B manual on my desk
right now.  The
: >oil
: > > > > pump has a presure regulator.  The line from the pump
has a Tee in it
: > > > before
: > > > > it gets to the filter.  One outlet of the tee goes to
the valve train,
: > > the
: > > > > other goes to the filter housing where the oil is
pumped through the
: > > > center
: > > > > tube to the top inside of the filter where it is
forced down through
: >the
: > > > > rags and then flows out to the block and the mains.
I don't
: >understand
: > > > how
: > > > > restricting the oil flow ahead of the filter can
create more oil
: >presure
: > > > to
: > > > > the mains.
: > > > >
: > > > > Charlie
: > > > > ----- Original Message -----
: > > > > From: "Rob Wilson" <rowilson at infinet.com>
: > > > > To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
: > > > <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
: > > > > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:40 AM
: > > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Dodge diesel oil filter number
: > > > >
: > > > >
: > > > > > Hi Charlie,
: > > > > >  The reason for the rag filled filters is not a
technology
: > > > > > issue but a design issue. The A-C engines need back
pressure
: > > > > > created by the filter to push oil to the mains.
Without this
: > > > > > the oil bypasses the mains and gets filtered over
and over.
: > > > > > As for WIX paper technology I believe they were one
of the
: > > > > > first to use the paper element since they started
in 1939.
: > > > > > They were a very innovative company.
: > > > > >
: > > > > > Rob
: > > > > >
: > > > > > > Hi Rob.  I won't argue that point with you as I
don't know
: >anything
: > > > > > about
: > > > > > > the Wix/AC filter failures BUT one thing I will
bet you is this.
: > > > > > > If paper filter technology had been available in
1940 AC would
: >have
: > > > > > never
: > > > > > > used those rag packed filters.
: > > > > >
: > > > > >
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