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    <p>Stuart:</p>
    <p>Don't give up the Day job!!!!!!!!!!!<br>
      Cecil<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2022 10:24 AM, Stuart Harner
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:91a8cad5-193f-1764-c73e-21f4e83c4a79@harnerfarm.net">
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      <p>So what you are saying is that you are stuck with ether or...?</p>
      <p>Sorry, couldn't resist. :)<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/22 10:14, Cecil Bearden
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:e9a67129-910b-bc46-d0c8-526eaad6d714@copper.net">
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        <p>There are 2 types of ether starting fluid.  20% and 50%  <br>
        </p>
        <p>Cecil<br>
        </p>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2022 8:19 AM, Indiana
          Robinson wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMe_8WX_xgUcvynae8oRxPn=pnXvjoyxSyJK7JbFu2-04W_nqw@mail.gmail.com">
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            <div>Thanks guys...I need to use it this week and maybe next
              week. I'll be trying some things, especially Steve's LP
              trick. I wonder where I put those torches. :-) <br>
            </div>
            <div>One thing on my side now is that it will be 50 degrees
              today and 60 tomorrow. I may not need anything extra. I do
              know that one problem is the thick oil in the tank and it
              not having a way to clutch out the pump for starting.</div>
            <div>I'll try to keep you posted.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at
              9:59 AM Stuart Harner <<a
                href="mailto:stuart@harnerfarm.net"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stuart@harnerfarm.net</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
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                <p>Remember the old fire triangle? Fuel-Air-Heat.</p>
                <p>With the ever more restrictive regulations filtering
                  down to the smaller engines the manufacturers have had
                  to lean out the mix as far as possible. If you were to
                  put a pyrometer on one my guess is that at operating
                  temperature they are running on the lean side of peak.</p>
                <p>As air temp drops it gets more dense but without a
                  choke to compensate the mix is just too lean to light
                  off. To make things worse they have taken all of the
                  adjustments away from the end user to prevent us from
                  becoming criminals against the regulations. I suspect
                  it also makes the carbs easier and cheaper to
                  manufacture. If a bad one slips through, just replace
                  it or the engine because it is cheaper than figuring
                  out the problem. We see this in a lot more then
                  carburetors.</p>
                <p>Changing to a lighter hydraulic fluid will help make
                  it easier to spin the engine faster when pulling the
                  starter. I am not sure if that will help make a hotter
                  spark or not considering it probably has electronic
                  ignition anyway. Faster starting RPM could help with
                  sucking in more fuel each stroke but then that means
                  more air to, so back to lean.</p>
                <p>I suspect that Farmer's engine sputters once in a
                  while is that the raw fuel builds up enough in the
                  cylinder to cause a rich enough mixture to fire once
                  or twice. Once that is burned off, back to square one.</p>
                <p>I am not sure that adjusting the valves would help
                  any unless there is a way to lengthen the duration.
                  Taking out all the backlash might cause the valve to
                  open a fraction sooner, but once everything is warm
                  and expanded there is a risk of it not closing fully
                  and burning the valve or seat.</p>
                <p>To get a more rich mixture for starting you could try
                  to restrict air (like the old choke plates did) or add
                  fuel like a primer does.</p>
                <p>I have a Knipco stye heater that will not light off
                  at any air temp unless I use both hands and cover as
                  much of the air intake as possible. It lights in less
                  than a second and then runs fine. I have tried
                  different nozzles and moving the igniter around, but
                  it still needs less air to get going.</p>
                <p>On the 1978 motorcycle I once had it was a victim of
                  early tampering with emissions on motorcycles. When
                  new it would not start on a cool day and it had a
                  manual choke. I rigged up a way to inject a little
                  ether into the airbox that was buried under the seat.
                  Had to put 10,000 miles on that bike before it got
                  over that problem.</p>
                <p>The idea of using an unlit torch to add a little fuel
                  sounds like a good one. Red Green would just slap a
                  little piece of duct tape on the air intake until it
                  warms up.</p>
                <p>Best of luck to Farmer getting this working.</p>
                <p>Stuart<br>
                </p>
                <p><br>
                </p>
                <div>On 2/14/22 01:34, Greg Hass wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div dir="ltr">I have a JD Zero Turn with 27 hp.
                    Briggs engine and electric start. Anything around 45
                    to 50 degrees and it just wouldn't start. It does
                    not idle good either, but the book says that is
                    because of emissions control. My brother has a
                    Simplicity zero turn 3 years old and several times
                    has tried to start it in 40 degree and it just won't
                    fire so it is not just my mower. Both engines have
                    fixed jets so no adjustment is possible. It is
                    possible other things could be wrong, but my only
                    other idea is to make sure it has fresh WINTER blend
                    gas.
                    <div>       Greg Hass</div>
                    <div><br>
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                    <div><br>
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                    <div><br>
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                    <div><br>
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                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">
                    <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 13,
                      2022 at 8:15 AM Moe Fretz <<a
                        href="mailto:tubetester@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tubetester@gmail.com</a>>
                      wrote:<br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
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                      <div>
                        <div dir="auto">Try this site, they should be
                          able to help  you.  </div>
                        <div dir="auto"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="auto">
                          <div><a
                              href="http://ppeten.com/forums/search.php?search_id=newposts"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://ppeten.com/forums/search.php?search_id=newposts</a></div>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb
                            12, 2022 at 18:51 Mike M <<a
                              href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">meulenms@gmx.com</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                            <div> Hi Farmer,<br>
                               Just a thought, my log splitter was hard
                              to start in cold weather, until I changed
                              the hydraulic fluid from the OEM  fluid to
                              transmission fluid,a whole world of
                              difference.<br>
                              <br>
                              Mike M</div>
                            <div><br>
                              <br>
                               <br>
                              <br>
                              <div>On 2/12/2022 9:24 PM, Stephen Offiler
                                wrote:<br>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote type="cite">
                                <div dir="ltr">Hi farmer:  I'd have to
                                  think you've already been down this
                                  road, but, I'll say for the record
                                  that I've had pretty decent luck
                                  downloading manuals from the Briggs
                                  site.  But I haven't done it lately,
                                  and it's always 20-year old stuff when
                                  I do.   The other thing I'll mention
                                  is the good old unlit propane torch in
                                  the intake trick.  That's my go-to
                                  when they're almost trying to start. 
                                  There's spark and fuel but the modern
                                  carburetors are set lean for emissions
                                  and it just seems that the choke
                                  doesn't quite get the mixture rich
                                  enough.
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Good luck,</div>
                                  <div>Steve O.</div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                    Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 7:43 PM Indiana
                                    Robinson <<a
                                      href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a>>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>We have a log splitter a
                                        couple of years old that has a
                                        OHV CR950 Briggs. It only has a
                                        few hours on it but has become
                                        quite hard to start (recoil
                                        start). It is way too recent for
                                        my knowledge base... It seems
                                        that most things are these days.
                                        Apparently the OHV Brigg's have
                                        a cam bump "compression relief"
                                        I also understand that there is
                                        an important valve adjustment
                                        procedure that can normally
                                        improve starting problems. We
                                        can't find a site that gives a
                                        clear and understandable
                                        explanation of the procedure.</div>
                                      <div>Does anyone know of a site
                                        with a clear description of how
                                        to do it? It will usually start
                                        if it is sitting in the sun and
                                        the temp is at least 50...
                                        Yesterday at 45 degrees it
                                        "ALMOST" started 837 times... It
                                        keeps firing enough to keep you
                                        trying and trying...<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>Thanks<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        -- <br>
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div>-- <br>
                                              <br>
                                              Francis Robinson<br>
                                              aka "farmer"<br>
                                              Central Indiana USA<br>
                                              <a
                                                href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
                                              <br>
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                      -- <br>
                      <div dir="ltr">Moe Fretz <br>
                        <br>
                        L’Orignal ON,<br>
                        Canada </div>
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          <br>
          -- <br>
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>-- <br>
                <br>
                Francis Robinson<br>
                aka "farmer"<br>
                Central Indiana USA<br>
                <a href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
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AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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