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    <p>So what you are saying is that you are stuck with ether or...?</p>
    <p>Sorry, couldn't resist. :)<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/22 10:14, Cecil Bearden wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:e9a67129-910b-bc46-d0c8-526eaad6d714@copper.net">
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      <p>There are 2 types of ether starting fluid.  20% and 50%  <br>
      </p>
      <p>Cecil<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/15/2022 8:19 AM, Indiana
        Robinson wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMe_8WX_xgUcvynae8oRxPn=pnXvjoyxSyJK7JbFu2-04W_nqw@mail.gmail.com">
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          <div>Thanks guys...I need to use it this week and maybe next
            week. I'll be trying some things, especially Steve's LP
            trick. I wonder where I put those torches. :-) <br>
          </div>
          <div>One thing on my side now is that it will be 50 degrees
            today and 60 tomorrow. I may not need anything extra. I do
            know that one problem is the thick oil in the tank and it
            not having a way to clutch out the pump for starting.</div>
          <div>I'll try to keep you posted.</div>
          <div><br>
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        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 9:59
            AM Stuart Harner <<a href="mailto:stuart@harnerfarm.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">stuart@harnerfarm.net</a>>
            wrote:<br>
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              <p>Remember the old fire triangle? Fuel-Air-Heat.</p>
              <p>With the ever more restrictive regulations filtering
                down to the smaller engines the manufacturers have had
                to lean out the mix as far as possible. If you were to
                put a pyrometer on one my guess is that at operating
                temperature they are running on the lean side of peak.</p>
              <p>As air temp drops it gets more dense but without a
                choke to compensate the mix is just too lean to light
                off. To make things worse they have taken all of the
                adjustments away from the end user to prevent us from
                becoming criminals against the regulations. I suspect it
                also makes the carbs easier and cheaper to manufacture.
                If a bad one slips through, just replace it or the
                engine because it is cheaper than figuring out the
                problem. We see this in a lot more then carburetors.</p>
              <p>Changing to a lighter hydraulic fluid will help make it
                easier to spin the engine faster when pulling the
                starter. I am not sure if that will help make a hotter
                spark or not considering it probably has electronic
                ignition anyway. Faster starting RPM could help with
                sucking in more fuel each stroke but then that means
                more air to, so back to lean.</p>
              <p>I suspect that Farmer's engine sputters once in a while
                is that the raw fuel builds up enough in the cylinder to
                cause a rich enough mixture to fire once or twice. Once
                that is burned off, back to square one.</p>
              <p>I am not sure that adjusting the valves would help any
                unless there is a way to lengthen the duration. Taking
                out all the backlash might cause the valve to open a
                fraction sooner, but once everything is warm and
                expanded there is a risk of it not closing fully and
                burning the valve or seat.</p>
              <p>To get a more rich mixture for starting you could try
                to restrict air (like the old choke plates did) or add
                fuel like a primer does.</p>
              <p>I have a Knipco stye heater that will not light off at
                any air temp unless I use both hands and cover as much
                of the air intake as possible. It lights in less than a
                second and then runs fine. I have tried different
                nozzles and moving the igniter around, but it still
                needs less air to get going.</p>
              <p>On the 1978 motorcycle I once had it was a victim of
                early tampering with emissions on motorcycles. When new
                it would not start on a cool day and it had a manual
                choke. I rigged up a way to inject a little ether into
                the airbox that was buried under the seat. Had to put
                10,000 miles on that bike before it got over that
                problem.</p>
              <p>The idea of using an unlit torch to add a little fuel
                sounds like a good one. Red Green would just slap a
                little piece of duct tape on the air intake until it
                warms up.</p>
              <p>Best of luck to Farmer getting this working.</p>
              <p>Stuart<br>
              </p>
              <p><br>
              </p>
              <div>On 2/14/22 01:34, Greg Hass wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <div dir="ltr">I have a JD Zero Turn with 27 hp. Briggs
                  engine and electric start. Anything around 45 to 50
                  degrees and it just wouldn't start. It does not idle
                  good either, but the book says that is because of
                  emissions control. My brother has a Simplicity zero
                  turn 3 years old and several times has tried to start
                  it in 40 degree and it just won't fire so it is not
                  just my mower. Both engines have fixed jets so no
                  adjustment is possible. It is possible other things
                  could be wrong, but my only other idea is to make sure
                  it has fresh WINTER blend gas.
                  <div>       Greg Hass</div>
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                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 13, 2022
                    at 8:15 AM Moe Fretz <<a
                      href="mailto:tubetester@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tubetester@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
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                    <div>
                      <div dir="auto">Try this site, they should be able
                        to help  you.  </div>
                      <div dir="auto"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div dir="auto">
                        <div><a
                            href="http://ppeten.com/forums/search.php?search_id=newposts"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://ppeten.com/forums/search.php?search_id=newposts</a></div>
                        <br>
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                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb
                          12, 2022 at 18:51 Mike M <<a
                            href="mailto:meulenms@gmx.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">meulenms@gmx.com</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
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                          <div> Hi Farmer,<br>
                             Just a thought, my log splitter was hard to
                            start in cold weather, until I changed the
                            hydraulic fluid from the OEM  fluid to
                            transmission fluid,a whole world of
                            difference.<br>
                            <br>
                            Mike M</div>
                          <div><br>
                            <br>
                             <br>
                            <br>
                            <div>On 2/12/2022 9:24 PM, Stephen Offiler
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr">Hi farmer:  I'd have to
                                think you've already been down this
                                road, but, I'll say for the record that
                                I've had pretty decent luck downloading
                                manuals from the Briggs site.  But I
                                haven't done it lately, and it's always
                                20-year old stuff when I do.   The other
                                thing I'll mention is the good old unlit
                                propane torch in the intake trick. 
                                That's my go-to when they're almost
                                trying to start.  There's spark and fuel
                                but the modern carburetors are set lean
                                for emissions and it just seems that the
                                choke doesn't quite get the mixture rich
                                enough.
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Good luck,</div>
                                <div>Steve O.</div>
                              </div>
                              <br>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                  Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 7:43 PM Indiana
                                  Robinson <<a
                                    href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                                  <div dir="ltr">
                                    <div>We have a log splitter a couple
                                      of years old that has a OHV CR950
                                      Briggs. It only has a few hours on
                                      it but has become quite hard to
                                      start (recoil start). It is way
                                      too recent for my knowledge
                                      base... It seems that most things
                                      are these days. Apparently the OHV
                                      Brigg's have a cam bump
                                      "compression relief" I also
                                      understand that there is an
                                      important valve adjustment
                                      procedure that can normally
                                      improve starting problems. We
                                      can't find a site that gives a
                                      clear and understandable
                                      explanation of the procedure.</div>
                                    <div>Does anyone know of a site with
                                      a clear description of how to do
                                      it? It will usually start if it is
                                      sitting in the sun and the temp is
                                      at least 50... Yesterday at 45
                                      degrees it "ALMOST" started 837
                                      times... It keeps firing enough to
                                      keep you trying and trying...<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>Thanks<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      -- <br>
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                          <div>-- <br>
                                            <br>
                                            Francis Robinson<br>
                                            aka "farmer"<br>
                                            Central Indiana USA<br>
                                            <a
                                              href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
                                            <br>
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                    <div dir="ltr">Moe Fretz <br>
                      <br>
                      L’Orignal ON,<br>
                      Canada </div>
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        <br>
        -- <br>
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>-- <br>
              <br>
              Francis Robinson<br>
              aka "farmer"<br>
              Central Indiana USA<br>
              <a href="mailto:robinson46176@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">robinson46176@gmail.com</a><br>
              <br>
              <br>
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AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
AT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a>
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