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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I used copper in my old shop built in 1993 and in my new shop built in 2006 it is a onetime purchase so spend the money and do it safely and correct. Copper is so easy to install and change later if wanted or needed. Copper is unaffected by sunlight or rusting, great heat transfer to remove condensation. Never questioned the use of it in my shops. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bruce Fallon<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Langley, WA 98260<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> AT [mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Spencer Yost<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 13, 2021 8:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> at@lists.antique-tractor.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] Air lines for shop<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>One of the reasons I have been thinking copper is because here in the humid south, water in air lines is a problem. You can not paint without a desiccant filter for example. Nothing worse than seeing water droplets coming out with your paint (been there done that). One benefit I thought copper would have would be to condense water quickly and earlier in the run; therefore water vapor would be less of an issue at the tool end(assuming I slant the lines to run back towards the compressor) and my tool-end water filters wouldn't fill up so fast. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Anyone with experience with copper find this to be true?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also, copper is less than $1 per foot more expensive(3.46/ft vs 2.69/ft) so for a run that will be less than 100' worth of pipe so I decided to not sweat (excuse the pun) the cost factor between black pipe and copper and just go on the merits.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>While continuing to look around at various options and along the way I saw 1-1/2" black pipe at Lowes with an oddly specific PSI rating: 231PSI I'm beginning to think Brice might be right and they are using steam rating....<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Spencer<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/13/21 9:55 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Brice reminded me of something. Now, it's been a while since I've put much thought into Schedule rating of pipe. Reviewing, the basic definition is: Schedule = Pressure/Stress. Example: Schedule 40 pipe at 1200 psi would have stress of 30 ksi developed in the walls. That's why wall thickness increases with pipe diameter - larger diameter means larger internal surface area means higher force for a given pressure, so wall thickness is increased to fight the higher forces and keep stress in the wall constant. I pick the example above because Schedule 40 Class A pipe has a yield stress rating of 30 ksi. (There is also a Class B which is somewhat stronger). At 175 psi your factor of safety is almost 7, which is quite large. I'd sleep well with this number as small as 4 - in other words, 300psi. Of course there's additional considerations for the fittings and whatnot, but as long as it's Schedule 40, there's really nothing to worry about. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That stuff at Lowe's claiming 150 psi.... I don't believe it. The people writing up the specs on their website are probably minimum-wage drones. I would get ahold of a chart showing wall thickness vs pipe diameter and measure the wall thickness right there in the store (yeah I do tend to travel with a caliper in my bag most of the time). Dimensions alone would confirm if this "150 psi" stuff is actually Schedule 40.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I know you don't really want to use black iron pipe but I like I said Brice sort of reminded me of how all this pressure rating stuff works. Of all the options, black pipe is certainly the most old-school, antique-tractor appropriate. I'm not against the modern materials and I would also seriously consider Pex, but not PVC. I can solder copper way faster than I can screw together black pipe but copper is pretty darn pricey these days. In my own shop, the answer is: rubber hose. I've never graduated past the portable compressor to something big and stationary that lends itself to permanent plumbing.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SO<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM Brice Adams <<a href="mailto:brice.adams@gmail.com">brice.adams@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Spencer,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Something tweaked my memory from plumbing the Huber about different pressure ratings for steam, air, and fluids with schedule 40 and 80 pipe. The 150 psi may be the steam rating and the air rating is 34 to 6 times higher.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Brice<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 8:21 AM Ken Knierim <<a href="mailto:ken.knierim@gmail.com" target="_blank">ken.knierim@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Go copper if you're comfortable with sweating it together. I did that after trying PVC for awhile. Got some AZ sun on the PVC and it blew out a couple times with sharp little shards flying around (doesn't survive impact damage well). I like the sound of PEX but again, sunlight is abundant here. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My $0.02<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ken in AZ<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:43 PM Spencer Yost <<a href="mailto:spencer@rdfarms.com" target="_blank">spencer@rdfarms.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>So I’m going to be making three new pipe runs from my air compressor. Previously I’ve just relied on hoses since the 50 foot hose will reach everywhere in my shop.<br><br>It will consist of one long “trunk” run that will be nearly 40 feet, and then a few stub runs of anywhere from 5’ to 15’ <br><br>I was thinking about black pipe as that’s what I have used before. But I had no idea the common, affordable black pipe you find in hardware stores is only good to 150 psi. My compressor is two stage and is 175 psi:<br><br>3/4-in x 3-ft 150-PSI Black Iron Pipe <a href="https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442" target="_blank">https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southland-Pipe-3-4-in-x-3-ft-150-PSI-Black-Iron-Pipe/3371442</a><br><br>I guess I’m thinking about biting the bullet and going copper. I’d like to go with some of those really neat new aluminum systems but I could never afford that.<br><br>What are y’all think about copper? I know 3/4” copper is good to about 1000 psi. It eliminates the rust problem that eventually befalls all black steel pipe systems; which is kind of a plus. As far as installation, I solder better than I cut threads :-)<br><br><br><br>Spencer<br><br><br>Sent from my iPhone<br>_______________________________________________<br>AT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>AT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>AT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com" target="_blank">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>AT mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:AT@lists.antique-tractor.com">AT@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com">http://lists.antique-tractor.com/listinfo.cgi/at-antique-tractor.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Spencer Yost<o:p></o:p></pre></div></body></html>