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OK, so now the picture becomes clearer. We're going to a bonfire
tonight with friends, one of whom is a certified unlimited tonnage
refrigerant journeyman. He works on systems and chillers the size of
which blow my mind, all industrial. I'll ask him about Deans
problem. His mother had her refrigerator go out and rather than
bother him she called a service company. They said it was a bad
compressor and charged her around $700. When he got home she told
him about the problem, and what they did. He immediately called the
service tech and asked him about the problem. The service tech told
him,"sir this is very complicated" This lit the fuse on my buddy
who asked him if he ohm's out certain parts and other very specific
technical questions. The serviceman soon realized he chewed on the
wrong dog, and referred him to the owner of the company. After
checking her system her determined that it was a relay or some
inexpensive part. Don't quote me on the parts I'm not an expert.
The owner dropped the charge from $700 to $150 apologized profusely.
<br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/6/2020 6:04 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net">bradloomis@charter.net</a> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Oh they can and do leak but they aren’t
supposed to leak, AT ALL. Ever. Sealed systems. Now, by law,
leaks have to be repaired. You can no longer just “add some”
refrigerant because you can do that in perpetuity. Of course
there are exceptions to all laws. Hell even autos aren’t
supposed to ‘leak’. I doubt most cars newer than what? 10? 20?
Years old “leak” a little oil. Unless there is something
wrong, just like that A/C unit. Something isn’t right. Any A/C
guy that doesn’t find and fix the leak is negligent, or just a
bad mechanic. If your son inlaw is just family with
refrigerant adding it to your system, no harm no foul. I’ve
worked on 50 year old units that are still intact and working
without ever having the systems opened. Like cars, tractors,
and refrigerators, some are better than others. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a> <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 2:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm still
having a hard time with your statement that a system cannot
leak over time. A small leak will lower the refrigerant level
over time, no different than a car with a small oil leak will
lead to a lower oil level "over time". I don't want to get
into the different refrigerants, and whether they are good or
bad, I am more interested in dealing with Deans problem, and
for you to say that it couldn't be low refrigerant is bogus,
you clearly stated that that there is no such thing as a small
leak over time, " <b>If it leaks it has a leak. No over time,
no evaporating</b>" please clarify your statement.<br>
<br>
Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 4:09 PM, <a
href="mailto:bloomis@charter.net" moz-do-not-send="true">bloomis@charter.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Out a hole, bad joint, corrosion. If he
didn’t fix the leak then he’ll be adding more. I didn’t say
it couldn’t be a small leak, but still a leak. If it is a
split system it probably holds 4-6 lbs. of refrigerant. A
domestic refrigerator holds less than a pound. I had a
little 3’ pie case that had a leak that I never found. Every
3 months it would quit. The charge was 6oz of R-12. That is
a tiny leak. So if pie cases, or any other refrigerant
system had small leaks by design, refrigeration mechanics
would never go home. It was at the Piedras Blancas Motel,
which closed shortly thereafter. Forever. <a
href="https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://visitsansimeonca.com/what-to-do/piedras-blancas-motel/</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The reason the ozone layer and
refrigerants came under scrutiny was primarily due to the
automobile. Older cars were notorious to leak, all averaging
2.5lbs of R-12. Multiply that by the millions and that is a
lot of R-12 into the atmosphere. I am not going to argue the
science, just the outcome. That effected ALL refrigeration,
A/C. When I first started in the trade when one needed to
empty a system for repair you just blew it out into the
atmosphere. Now recovery machines and a slew of
refrigerants. I got out of commercial refrigeration as the
plethora of refrigerants was overwhelming. You never knew
what the last guy put in a system. Used to be three, R=12
for most medium temp/ some low temp, R-22 for A/C, and R-502
for low temp. Simple and easy. I couldn’t work on a new A/C
system as I’ve never worked with 410a. Totally different
animal. Now it’s already being phased out. Long live
ammonia! Easy, and enviro friendly. Mostly. <br>
Think of a pound of refrigerant like a pound of propane.
Most of us know what that is. Not much. Liquid of course. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> AT <a
href="mailto:at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><at-bounces@lists.antique-tractor.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike M<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 06, 2020 12:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:at@lists.antique-tractor.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">at@lists.antique-tractor.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AT] While we are OT on
Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">So an air
conditioning system can't have a small leak that reduces the
level of refrigerant over time? Then why did my son in law
just have to add 2 lbs to our older AC unit? Where did it
go?<br>
<br>
Mike M<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/6/2020 2:59 PM, <a
href="mailto:bradloomis@charter.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">bradloomis@charter.net</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoPlainText">If it leaks it has a leak. No over
time, no evaporating. A leak. Some repairable some not so
much. Especially on a domestic refrigerator. Gets into
cost of repair exceeds value of equipment. However that
could cause excessive run time but the compartments would
be warm, eventually hot. Dean indicated that temps were
OK. Granted without a thermometer. Calibrated fingers? <span
style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Brad<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [AT] While we are OT on Refrigerators.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I would be suspicious of your
refrigerant level, it can leak over time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Mike M<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">On 6/5/2020 9:14 PM, <a
href="mailto:deanvp@att.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">deanvp@att.net</span></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> We have a GE side by side
refrigerator, Model TFX27F, with all the bells and
whistles Front Door Ice and Water dispenser, access door
to refrigerator without opening the big door, etc etc.
In fact we have a duplicate running in our kitchen right
now. This one was used as extra freezer and refrigerator
space for awhile when we moved here 20 years ago and then
it was turned off and not used for at least 10 years.
Well in my current need of making space in the garage I
fired it back up to check everything to get it ready for
sale. It freezes and the refrigerator compartment gets
cool like it should, well I haven't put a thermometer in
each compartment, but it appears to me to be working.
Except..... it never quits running. Not quite true it
runs about 95% of the time. Without having door opened or
anything disturbed. We have had such good luck with this
era of combination freezer refrigerator I thought it might
be worth something to those just getting on their feet.
I've cleaned the whole guts under the compartments and it
really wasn't all that bad. The coils are clean as can
be. I doubt this thing is worth more than $100 running as
it should but if I could find a cheap fix it might be
worth spending $20 on a part or so.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> And to satisfy the list needs
of being on topic. I need to make more room for Antique
Tractor stuff I don't need. Any one have a test I can
run or a particular part I can check? I'm pretty
proficient electronics wise. Besides if I could get this
running properly somebody might take this off my hands and
I won't have to deal with getting rid of it. It would take
my loader tractor to get it in to my P/U bed. Big heavy
sucker. Help? PS: I don't remember the last time I
threw something away but I do remember it was
traumatic.! <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI
Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Dean VP<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Snohomish, WA 98290<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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